Quick Magic update :)

She's been alternating between spelling for a couple of weeks and being ridden for two or three days, so progress is... slower than it perhaps could be, but still quicker than I'm really expecting! Heaps of time, I'm aiming for Prep level dressage at the start of her four-year-old show season [a good two years away yet!].

Anyway. Yesterday, because she was being a bit of a pest about giving vertically [I have NOT been asking for roundness, she's just been resistant, fighting a light contact... I did mouth her reasonably well, she's just opinionated] I chucked her in the round yard with side reins on. No lunge line because I'd rather not use one if I can avoid it. Let her fight against herself for a while, rather than fighting my hands [which would have resulted in me getting annoyed and pulling... bad habit of mine...], just kept her forward and let her figure it out for herself. She very quickly got the picture and when I got on her later, not asking for roundness at all just taking a very light contact as per usual, I had a soft round horse at walk, and for a few strides here and there at trot - again, NOT asking, she just came together of her own accord between leg, seat and a very light hand... such a clever little thing <3 [I'm not cantering her at the moment, don't have a saddle that fits her so I'm riding bareback and she's way too unbalanced for a bareback canter at this stage]

Then today a friend rode Monty, and I rode Magic, and we went for a trail ride. Just walking because I haven't done much with Magic off the property and was, again, bareback... but she was fantastic. There were a few monsters and she was pretty hot, but lovely and light in my hands and when she got a bit too big for her boots all it took was a light check to remind her that I was in charge. A couple of times she felt like she wanted to bolt, but then met my hands and came straight back to me.

She's two and a half years old... and I can ride her out bareback. Less than 30 rides total. What a horse!

Apparently the kerb is a terrifying horse eating monster and even after Monty went over it without blinking it still took a fair bit of leg to get her to try, but by "a fair bit of leg" I just mean a firm squeeze [she really doesn't need any more than that]. No kicking at all, she didn't try to turn away from it. This horse tries so hard for me :wub:

Now, I'm a pretty nervous rider, and I do NOT like forward horses. But a hot, forward Magic was not an issue - because I'm so confident in the mouth I've put on her that I know I have control. Light in the hand, but prancy and goey - I think I recall, in my constant mutterings to my horse, "you are NOT a racehorse, silly. Never seen the track, never seen a barrier, you weren't even broken in when I got you."

Some spectacular growling got done, on my part, when she got snotty at me for not letting her run like she wanted to, but all in all I'm impressed with her.

...and it doesn't help that I've recently put her on the same muesli Monty's on, purely because that's what I have and it hasn't sent her lame like so many feeds do. It's... rocket fuel. Best way to describe it!

I love my little chestnutter, she's going so well <3

I have a video uploading from today she's in a bit of a mood and tried on refusing to move on me, then when I booted her to MAKE her move she reared, shortly before the video was taken... so she's not as good as she HAS been... but I'm quite pleased with her all the same

Glad you had fun on your trial ride, sounds like your enjoying this experience. I do wonder though if you have considered taking her to get professionally mouthed? I remember you were talking about it at one point.

ShowjumpKid4Eva said:

Yesterday, because she was being a bit of a pest about giving vertically [I have NOT been asking for roundness, she's just been resistant, fighting a light contact... I did mouth her reasonably well, she's just opinionated] I chucked her in the round yard with side reins on.
Let her fight against herself for a while, rather than fighting my hands [which would have resulted in me getting annoyed and pulling... bad habit of mine...],

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The above just concerns/confuses me a bit.
Mouthing is so so important, and not to be done just "reasonably" well, have you considered getting a professional to do some fine tuning?

While I haven't broken in a horse myself, I've been "involved" in the experience, and I do get worried with the use of side reins ( side reins in general :} when not used by pro's.. ) but allowing her to "fight against" herself would surely just create a hard mouth horse? And am I am having trouble seeing where this is beneficial to this horse? ( Can anyone explain :confused: )Especially if a bad habit of yours is to pull back ( WE ALL have bad habits though ) would it be better to get a pro to get her through this, so she doesn't fight your hands, then you won't be put in a situation where you can fight back?

The point is not to put the side reins on tight enough that she can't get away from the pressure. In giving, she gives HERSELF the release [aka the reward], and I don't have to get annoyed with her.

I have full faith in the mouth I've put on her in regards to stopping and steering [working on steering with body and legs as well], she gives laterally, she just doesn't like giving vertically and being the opinionated little minx she is, she lets you know it. She has the softest mouth, it's amazing. I ride her in a plain mullen mouth snaffle that's too big for her and the moment I ask her for a stop or a turn she gives it to me. If she gets a bit big for her boots, all it takes is a light check to remind her that I'm in charge. She knows. She just doesn't like what she doesn't like, and so it's easier [perhaps not as correct, but much easier!] to just let her figure it out for herself.

Is it possible she could not be liking it because she is sore? ( Was it her that hurt her neck? )

Or perhaps she doesn't like it because the bit is to big?

Either way, glad your enjoying her and trail riding - sounds fun. **)

I'm anti side reins too and lunging systems. I'd much prefer a market harborough and if the horse is fighting a simple bridge of the reins fixes it asap as they are then fighting themselves and there's no pressure on the rider at all if done correctly.

Alot of our youngsters are 'opinionated' but they are not allowed to be at all when being ridden or handled. I'm the rider, you do as I ask and you're not allowed to think about wether or not you like that/want to.

South Boulder Bay - ( I'm purely interested in this ) How would you go about fixing this issue when breaking? Would you go straight back to re-mouthing?

Spider n Toby said:

South Boulder Bay - ( I'm purely interested in this ) How would you go about fixing this issue when breaking? Would you go straight back to re-mouthing?

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Ideally yes probably. But as I work in racing, pre training and training, we don't have that opportunity. At the moment actually we have a filly in that's been very poorly mouthed and poorly broken in. She would fight almost all contact and is a little miss 'I want to do things my own way'. What we've done was remove all bit pressure and ride her with no rein at all and use only leg. At first you have to really nag and exaggerate everything you ask til she gets it. Most important was to get her going forward nicely without hesitation then slowly each day take up a bit more rein. She's been in work 5 weeks now and we can now successfully ride her in full contact and ask her to round up. I'm really not the best at explaining things in words but its so important to take things slowly and work on one thing at a time. And we always always teach leg aids first before worrying about what they are doing in our hands. I saw this brilliant picture the other day that explained how leg should always come first and hands last (broken down in steps of how the horse responds etc). Too many riders these days rely on their reins and bit first.

It really does depend on the horse though. I mean this filly really needed to go right back to basics and she just didn't understand at all and was clearly upset by the whole riding thing. Where's we have a couple that will try it on with you, in which case we bridge the reins, they try fight, realize it doesn't work and go mmm ok I better do as asked.

We aren't breakers though so really even if the horse hasn't been broken well all the hard work is already done for us. I mean without being rude, if it WAS me I'd have sent my horse straight to a professional to start with because no matter how confident I am in my or the bosses methods I just wouldn't risk stuffing up or doing it wrong because I see it time and time again with the horses we have how the slightest mistake can take months to correct.

Sorry to drone on, I'm distracted watching Harry potter pmsl!

Tricky to use a MH if you're bareback though!

I just want to clarify that Magic doesn't get away with being opinionated. If I want her to do something, she's DOING it. That's actually why she reared today... she didn't want to, I got firmer with her than she likes, so she, of course, protested. But I've been waiting for her to rear so that I can teach her that rearing under saddle is unacceptable.

I don't think she's sore, but I'll check her Monday [I have PC tomorrow and will be out all day from very early with Monty] just to be sure she's not acting like a sore horse, now that she's got the picture - just a horse that hasn't been working this way for very long, so can't hold it for long. She didn't seem to understand that actually, she DID have to give vertically [which is odd because I made sure to teach her to when I was mouthing her...? apparently things don't translate from ground to ridden easily with her], and actually, she DID have to accept the fact that I was going to ride with a contact.

Video's uploaded The photos before and after the actual footage show from not long after I broke her in through to more recent and then the ones after are mostly from today - not all, but mostly.
[youtube2]QqfHMN67Ar0[/youtube2]

made sure to teach her to when I was mouthing her...? apparently things don't translate from ground to ridden easily with her], and actually, she DID have to accept the fact that I was going to ride with a contact."


Usually if horses don't understand the question they weren't asked correctly... Remember that little rule! Often we think its the horses when it 99% of the times is human error... Found this out many times.

ThanksSBB - I thought your post was great!! Makes a lot of sense thankyou

Horses only rear when you give them no where else to go, not because they don't like or agree with what's being asked :/

Anyway I know how you are with advice so I just want to clarify that I wasn't giving any on your situation or telling you how to do things just commenting on what spider n Toby had to say (perhaps I shall take it to pm though so as not to distract from the original topic).

I had a loose rein, SBB - she had plenty of option to go forward, she just didn't want to. Tried going backwards to make me quit asking, and then when that didn't work, she went up. Given that she didn't put up any fight at all when I broke her in [no buck, no rear] she hasn't yet had an opportunity to learn that that rubbish doesn't work.

She's not the first we've had that's reared in refusing to go forwards - after the first one I did ask my coach if it was something to do with me, my hands, whatever, and it's not

Thanks for posting an update on Magic SJK4E. Well done for riding through a sticky moment, I admire anyone that can ride bareback.

I just had 2 things I wanted to point out from the video. When you were trotting her she did look a little sore in front her neck was a give away for this. Shanti does the same head/neck bob thing when trotting and has been retired due to arthritis. Might be worth having checked to see if she has pain anywhere.

The other thing I picked up was that Magic appears a bit light on in both the video and the photos, has she been unwell recently?

Thank you wawa I will check her for any pain tomorrow [PC today so I'll be out all day], her feet need a trim so I can whack the hoof testers on her and it wouldn't surprise me if she had some muscle pain with the change in way of going that we're getting. Will also have to see how she goes with no contact as that could easily have been my fault [inconsistent contact, I struggle to keep my hands still bareback, or {worst nightmare, she's supposed to be a dressage horse in training} bridle lameness] and I really don't want to create a long-term problem.

The other thing is I really need to get her teeth done, they're not horribly sharp or anything [I've checked - that didn't go down well, LOL] but she was due for it 2 months ago... I just haven't gotten around to it yet... I just want my vet to have a quick squiz at what appears to be tushes beginning to erupt [bit is well away from them but even so it wouldn't surprise me if they were to blame - she's out to spell again as of today though]

She's been as healthy as a horse, but growing! Her weight does tend to fluctuate a little bit and frustratingly I can't do much about feeding her differently because there are SO many things that send her lame :/

ShowjumpKid4Eva;1568242[QUOTE said:

I can't do much about feeding her differently because there are SO many things that send her lame :/

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What are these things Showjumpkid?';' I always thought that a horse is ether lame or it isn't )) Different feeds can make it "warmer" for sure, but to make a young horse lame? :confused: I wouldn't think you are feeding her bucket loads of grain are you?

I sat down here to write out a big explaination of what has been happening with this filly but that is SJK's story to tell.

All I am going to say is how impressed I am that SJ has bought this filly so very far from where she was.

There have been tears, worries and determination to call in professionals for help but look how far they have come.

From a horse who arrived here so distressed about people that it would take 45 minutes or more just to get your hands on her, a horse who would panic so badly she would rear up and fall over sideways if she simply pulled her foot away so she could get her balance to the video above.

You have put in a huge amount of love, time, determination and timing to get this girl where she is.

From a horse we could not have given away to where you are now. That is an amazing journey. Well done SJ. She is a credit to your work with her.

She looks lame to me. In the back end. Probably why she's trying to rear and generally tell you to get off.

Is this an ex-racehorse that was broken in earlier?

SJK you have done a great job to get her this far, but i'd just step back for a minute and think about where you're heading to. i think with training babies, especially such a reactive filly as yours, it would be very useful to consider the german training scale. you should have relaxation and rhythm before you worry about contact. She haa a lovely walk, but a walk can also be the easiest one for riders to wreck! Dont worry about the contact yet, just let her find her natural balance. you have plenty of time so dont rush. most future dressage horses dont know about riders at 2.5 yrs old.

I think she'll be a lovely horse

Nope Lin, SJK4E broke her herself. She was a relatively unhandled 18mnth filly when they got her