STOCKYARD
HORSE  DISCUSSION FORUMS

Bon & Ted

Thanks everyone! He has foundered, NOT Laminitis

It is only very mild so no need for x-rays.

He is feeling quite sorry for himself right now, but he's also just a big girl

The vet was sure it was the grass that caused it as there have apparantely been alot of cases this season up in the hills.

He is now being put on a diet of wheaten chaff soaked, speedi beet, his vit/min supplement and meadow hay. NO SUGAR AND NO CARBS!!! Oh and bute for the next week or so...

I am positive and know that he will get over it, but he will also have all the neccesary time off that he needs (I'm still too sore to ride after my fall a couple of weeks ago anyway)

Oh and I won't feed him founderguard as he has only just recovered from a bout of ulcers

These horses do my head in, they can go through a fence without scratching themselves but can founder at the drop of a hat

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samm

Um Bon and Ted ,laminitis is the initiating cause of founder

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Kintara

Yeh I was about to say the same thing, laminitis is the inflamation of the laminae, inside the hoof wall. This causes founder. The laminae starts to separate, pedal bone starts to drop/rotate and you have a foundered horse.
Cheers

Danni

SMR

I don't think you can determine founder without x-rays as founder is the rotaion and/or sinking of the pedal bone (perhaps you can tell in a bad case??)

If the pedal bone has rotated or dropped, it is important that steps are taken to prevent furter rotation or sinking. If the bone is left to its own devices, it can rapidly get worse.

Someone mentioned riding a foundered horse - I assume they mean a laminitic horse as exercise can cause further deterioration until the bone stabilises.

I hope your horse make a fast recovery.

ETA: I don't mean to worry you as horses can recover, but founder can be life threatening and so must be taken seriously and time is crucial.

Bon & Ted

Ah sorry I know what I meant lol Head is not where it should be...

What I meant is that Ted's situation is not bad, it is such a mild case there is no rotation or movement of the pedal bone. His laminae is inflamed.

I do understand how serious founder is, I am horrified that my horse has it, I understand the problems it can cause, and that it can be potentially fatal. However, if the vet believed there was rotation of the bone he would've straight away sent Ted for x-rays. He is straight to the point and knows Ted quite well, not to mention the years of experience he has, I'm sure he didn't study at uni for nothing.

At the end of the day I trust my vets advice, my trimmer, who knows Ted's feet very well also confirmed that it is a very very mild case and no need to worry about him.

Cheers

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pso

OK, I'm having a blonde day..

How the heck can your vet OR your trimmer tell that there is NO rotation, without x-rays?

Yes, it imay be only mild laminitis...but dont go making blanket statements...not yet...

wormwatch

How does the Founderguard affect the ulcers? I've never heard of that being an issue and would be interested to find out.

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Bon & Ted

I have heard that founderguard can inflame ulcers...I'm not sure how but apparantely it can...

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Razzie

why would you bother using it in the first place?!

waste of money!

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Mod 3

This was a post made regards founderguard some time ago.I've copied it out of a post that was made a long long time ago as it might explain a few things.The post was made by QH Convert.

Founderguard contains an antibiotic called virginiamycin that is effective against a bacteria called Streptococcus bovis. If there is a lot of fermentation happening in the large intestine, the pH drops and the inside of the gut becomes more acidic. Streptococcus bovis thrives in acid environment and starts to multiply, whilst at the same time the other bacteria start to die (the good bacteria that ferment fibre can't survive in an acidic environment). when Streptococcus bovis ferments food, it produces more acid and so the gut becomes more acidic and then you get more Streptococcus bovis and less good fibre fermenting bacteria. so Streptociccus bovis multiplies even more then the Streptococcus bovis makes more acid, more good bacteria die and the cycle goes on - its a vicious cycle. eventually the good bacteria have been replaced by Strep bovis and the inside of the gut is so acidic that the other bacteria die en mass. when the good bacteria die, they release toxins. the belief is that the toxins from the dead bacteria are absorbed into the blood and this causes the inflammation in the foot and the breakdown of the join between the pedal bone and the hoof tissue.

founderguard helps prevent laminitis related to low pH (or rather high acid) in the large inestine due to high grain diets and grasses high in fructans (sugars). if you want to do more reading and want some scientific papers, here are some references on virginiamycin in horses you might like to chase up (i haven't checked the links in some time):

Rowe JB, Lees MJ, Pethick DW. (1994) Prevention of acidosis and laminitis associated with grain feeding in horses. Journal of Nutrition Dec;124(12 Suppl):2742S-2744S.

Rowe JB, Pethick DW and Johnson K.G. (1995)Controlling acidosis in the equine hindgut. Recent Advances in Animal Nutrition in Australia: July 1995 pages 136-143
available at: Redirect Notice

Johnson KG, Tyrrell J, Rowe JB, Pethick DW. (1988) Behavioural changes in stabled horses given nontherapeutic levels of virginiamycin. Equine Veterinary Journal. Mar;30(2):139-43.

Bailey SR, Baillon ML, Rycroft AN, Harris PA, Elliott J. (2003) Identification of equine cecal bacteria producing amines in an in vitro model of carbohydrate overload. Applied Environmental Microbiology Apr;69(4):2087-93.

Bailey SR, Rycroft A, Elliott J. (2002) Production of amines in equine cecal contents in an in vitro model of carbohydrate overload. Journal of Animal Science. Oct;80(10):2656-62.
available at: Production of amines in equine cecal contents in an in vitro model of carbohydrate overload -- Bailey et al. 80 (10): 2656 -- Journal of Animal Science

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