Smokey black...Can I assume...

Remaani · 07-01-2010, 07:26 PM

To me he looks like a Black Bucky, but with the parents..... how sure are you whom the sire REALLY is, lol.
I IMO wouldn't say he's Liver/Dark Chestnut LOL, but i could be wrong.
What other stallion's or colts were on the property?

He looks pretty similar in colour to Jai whom is Black Bucky (Smokey Black, whatever you want to call it), he is black to look at but has produced Black Bucky & Bucky o/o Black Tobiano (no dilute) & Palomino o/o Chestnut Tobiano.
He has a reddish hue to his coat in certain light but he's not dark/liver chestnut.
Although he hasn't the lighter colour in the ears, one of his sons (Black Bucky) is also similar in colour to your boy, he has the dark gold colouring in his ears & bit lighter around the muzzle/eyes etc.

If in doubt, DNA & Colour Test.

aliasmel · 08-01-2010, 08:36 AM

Ahh know where I went wrong...I was going off his papers and it said his mother is chestnut Tobiano but after finding the breeders website it says she is a bay tobiano.

Go to to Kismet warriors Teena and thats his dam...
Dont I feel stupid! lol

Delrae · 08-01-2010, 09:10 AM

It is so annoying when the colours are incorrect on the rego papers isnt it

I have a brown spotty filly and on her rego papers she is black!!!!

Tintara · 08-01-2010, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delrae

It is so annoying when the colours are incorrect on the rego papers isnt it

Well gee whiz 'aliasmel', what a silly thing to do

..... Fancy assuming that a rego certificate is correct !!

If colours are wrong on rego papers it generally means they're wrong in the association's database too and that leads to more complications. You try explaining to someone who wants to register a dilute that with the parentage colours they've listed it simply isn't possible for their horse to be a dilute 'so can you please DNA test it ...........' 9 times out of 10 the horse DOES turn out be a dilute so then it's a case of trying to work out which parent is incorrectly registered so the CORRECT colours can be recorded on our registration certificate because I feel it is important with colour breed societies that the parents' colours are also listed on a rego certificate.

I would DNA test him for cream and if he is a black buckskin then he is eligible for dilute rego too

.

Dollar · 08-01-2010, 02:09 PM

Who do you DNA test with Tintara ? And roughly how much does it cost ?

ChevalNoire · 08-01-2010, 02:36 PM

We've had this discussion about my black arab mare on many occasions and it appears to be the same situation here.

He looks to be a fading black, as opposed to a true black. A true black always looks jet black regardless of the season (usually with a blue tinge) whereas a fading black changes colour from jet black to what looks like a chocolate brown to a seal grey as the weather warms or cools.

At the moment my mare is identical in colour to your little guy (black looking overall but with red chocolatey hairs top of tail and forelock) but she'll darken out as summer progresses to jet black when she has no fine (warmth) hairs and finally will fade to a seal (like black slate) colour before getting her winter coat again which will then have a red hue to it.

On her registration papers she is listed as black (which is correct) but at the moment she looks chocolatey brown. I'd upload a pic if I knew how.

True 'True Blacks' are quite rare with the majority of 'black' horses actually being fading blacks.

There are heaps of sites on the internet which will verify what I've just said (having been through the whole colour research thing myself - after my mother was ready to sue the breeder for falsely representing her colour etc

) and sorry if my answer's a bit waffly.

Hope that helps

Tintara · 08-01-2010, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dollar

Who do you DNA test with Tintara ? And roughly how much does it cost ?

Usually the Animal Genetics lab in the US but there is also UC Davis, PetDNA Services and so on - there are quite a few commerical labs over there that do equine coat colour testing. Cost is around the $25 US mark which is not much more in Aussie $$ at the moment.

mirawee · 08-01-2010, 03:50 PM

CN, has your girl actually been DNA tested as black? I have one here that everyone says is black but IMO she is brown. She sounds exactly like your horse though

Kate O · 08-01-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChevalNoire

He looks to be a fading black, as opposed to a true black. A true black always looks jet black regardless of the season (usually with a blue tinge) whereas a fading black changes colour from jet black to what looks like a chocolate brown to a seal grey as the weather warms or cools.

True 'True Blacks' are quite rare with the majority of 'black' horses actually being fading blacks.

Fading or non fading, a horse that tests 'aa E?', with no other dilutions etc, is still a 'true black' as it carries no agouti. But I know what you are getting at - some genetic blacks can look brown, and sometimes even bay.

aliasmel · 11-01-2010, 02:43 PM

Ok was just out brushing this boy and as I was brushing his legs I noticed he has black points on his legs,its not 'out there' as if it would be on a bay or a light horse with dark points but they are deffinantly there.

So maybe he is a black buckskin? if he is a I get him DNA'D and rego him as a dilute does that mean he can then compete in dilute classes at shows?