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PHAA removed mandatory testing for PSSM1

Breeding Horses Thread, PHAA removed mandatory testing for PSSM1 in Horses and Ponies; Given that MH can worsen the condition of a horse positive for PSSM1 I'm surprised that this hasn't been discussed ...
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Old 10-05-2013, 08:47 AM   #41
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Given that MH can worsen the condition of a horse positive for PSSM1 I'm surprised that this hasn't been discussed along side the discussion for PSSM1 testing. For those of you who have tested for PSSM1 have you also tested for MH? MH is caused by a dominant gene so a horse with only one copy will be inflicted by it. As this gene can cause death to a horse that goes under anaesthetic and most colts are gelded under anaesthetic wouldn't it be wise to test for this in both stallions and mares prior to breeding them? The papers on MH say that this genetic defect can be traced back to 2 QH bloodlines but I can't find reference to what these blood lines are any where. Does any one know what these bloodlines are?
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:18 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by RVP Horses View Post
Given that MH can worsen the condition of a horse positive for PSSM1 I'm surprised that this hasn't been discussed along side the discussion for PSSM1 testing. For those of you who have tested for PSSM1 have you also tested for MH? MH is caused by a dominant gene so a horse with only one copy will be inflicted by it. As this gene can cause death to a horse that goes under anaesthetic and most colts are gelded under anaesthetic wouldn't it be wise to test for this in both stallions and mares prior to breeding them? The papers on MH say that this genetic defect can be traced back to 2 QH bloodlines but I can't find reference to what these blood lines are any where. Does any one know what these bloodlines are?
Good point, RVP. Will try to find out the answer for you re bloodlines.
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:36 AM   #43
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Do, I think that it is right for an animal to come back as affected when the parents have tested clear. The thing is, there is quite a difference between how a dog is DNA tested over a horse and there is a lot more risk for contamination on a dog's DNA sample, which is either blood or a bucal swab, verses a horses DNA sample which just requires a person to pull either mane or tail hairs.
The only way that a person could truly contaminate horse hairs is to accidentally mix another person's horse hair sample up with someone elses horse hair sample, but generally when a person submits a horse hair sample, it is either bagged individually or is on seperate sheets if many are shipped together.
Now, I could very easily see if a lab was sloppy in their handling procedures and sanitation, how a dog's sample could very easily become contaminated given that you are working with such a small sample.
Personally, I think it would be much harder to contaminate a horse sample and I'll tell you another reason why I feel this as well.

Back several years ago, my sister, who works for the USDA in their DNA and genome sequencing lab, gave me the nickel tour. She showed me the trays that they use to run the samples, in her case, plant material. She showed me the machines that do the DNA testing and in fact one was running a sample as I viewed the lab. She also showed me how they prepped the samples too.

Now, given the fact that they actually cut off the roots and place them in a gel base and they have trays that have many tubes, I find it quite a bit harder to contaminate a sample like that verses blood or bucal samples as your dealing with a much larger object. Also, these trays have numerous tubes in them and the machine has enough sampling fingers to match the tube quantity on the tray and as thise machine is running its samples, each individual finger is sucking up the DNA from that tube and is analysing it and is recording that data and it graphs out that data and then the lab tech then analysis the data and looks for similarities as well and based upon that, makes a determination.

Its just too easy for blood or bucal swabs to get wet or sweat and pick up blood or saliva from something else. Quite a bit harder for a hair root to pick up another hair root's DNA unless 2 hair roots ended up in the same tray together, but with numerous hair roots being sampled, that particular one would show so much difference, it would more then likely be eliminated from the actual test results.
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:51 AM   #44
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RVP, you are right about Malignant Hyperthermia (MH) and whether a horse is n/Mh or Mh/Mh, they still can be affected by the genetic disease.
Currently, the extremely symptomatic positives that I know about, have all tested negative for MH, so we know in the case of those horses, MH is not causing them to be more symptomatic.
Right now the researchers have stated that two bloodlines are involved, but they have yet to release the names of the bloodlines.
Also, the researchers have stated that less then 1% of the QH population are positive for MH and to date, I have only heard of one horse, a Paint mare, who was sired by the stallion, Ruhlin With Class, that tested out to be positive for MH. Now, I never did find out the dam to that Paint mare, so the MH could've very easily come from the dam. To date, there has been PSSM + foals who do have Ruhlin With Class in their pedigree and yet they have all tested NEGATIVE for MH, so at this point of time, I would NOT CONSIDER him to be the one that gave MH to this particular mare. Many of us have kicked this around the table and one thing that would do feel in all of this discussion about MH is that more then likely, it is coming from some obscure bloodlines because the numbers are so low, which means that more then likely, we can rule out popular stallions like Three Bars, King, Poco Bueno, Impressive and many other studs whose names appear in numerous pedigree.
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:08 PM   #45
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I am aware of how rare it is but that doesn't help someone who breeds or buys a colt and has it gelded. This is not a case of it may be manageable by diet, this is case of you put your horse under anaesthetic for a routine operation and it dies. Especially since with prior knowledge it's preventable. For the cost of the test I would definitely get my horses tested prior to breeding if they carried that bloodline. I'm getting ready to geld two colt by my QH stallion and it's really got me thinking, what if. He's had colts before that have been gelded with no issues but even so. I can't understand why they won't release the bloodlines involved. I would have thought, the more obscure the bloodlines the quicker they would be to release them as it wouldn't majorly effect someone's reputation, livelihood etc which can sometimes cause delays in releasing controversial information on well known horses. Is this just a newer mutation in these two bloodlines so therefore it hasn't had time to proliferate? Without the knowledge of the bloodlines it's hard to tell. It would appear that it was discovered in 2010 I think.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:12 AM   #46
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First off, why do so many people have to use this tired argument that the only good horses out there are positives and that the ones that are negative are crap. I hear this time and time again but yet I can find numerous negatives out there that are just as good or even better then their positive counterparts and have the same, if not extremely similar bloodlines.
Also, with most of these studs and mares that have tested positive, many of them already have negative sons and daughters out there who have done as good, if not better then their sires and dams, and why are we not utilising them instead. By using them, we don't lose the bloodlines that are already here, plus we keep the greatness of that stallion or mare going forward, without the bad side of PSSM being involved.
We can chose to stop this in its tracks right now if we want to, but so many people use these excuses to keep breeding these horses forward as they don't want to lose money. As more and more people learn about PSSM, there will be less people to take on these positives and as it is, I have already seen many of these positive, older stallions and mares, change hands for whatever remares or I've seen dispersal sales happening and of course, only select horses are being dispersed. Makes a person wonder at times.
That is great that possibly 80% or more can be managed, but how many people want to take on a special needs horse. Many people don't want to deal with the headaches of a positive and many people who own or have owned positives in the past, have stated that they won't own another one. They just hated the financial and emotional tolls that owning a positive can bring on. People want simple and easy.
Also, with an association like the PHAA setting up genetic disease testing with their lab, they could very easily control the samples and even if folks kept using Animal Genetics, the PHAA or anyone else for that matter, could require that a DNA panel be run on the horse being tested as AG checks for more markers then what most breed associations require. That way you verify that the horse is who they say it is and it can be checked against PHAA records.

I had always thought that the goal of any breeder was to produce an animal that was better then its ancestors. As we roll into this 21st century, we will have more issues that will present itself and as breeders we will have to decide what we definitely want to stay in our equine breeds and what needs to go but with having genetic testing available, we can start to breed away from these issues that have plagued our animals.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:22 AM   #47
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RVP, since there is a genetic disease test out there for MH, one only has to either test or request testing on a possible sale or stallion to make sure that the horse is clear. That fixes all problems of "I wonder?" And until they release the names, it will be the only way that we can protect ourselves from the inevitable.
That is the biggest problem with doing research is that you can formulate an opinion, and only through testing that opinion, can you start to get a clearer pic and I'm sure with the AmQHA now offering this 5 panel test, they'll be able to gather more data to solidify that opinion.
Just like back some time ago I was reading an article on PSSM and the researchers and them providing names. Originally they had thought that 3 stallions was responsible for all cases of PSSM and they had considered releasing those names. In the article, it stated that they were thankful that they hadn't released the names as it would've given people a false sense of security as they are now finding out that it is more then just those three bloodlines.
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:22 AM   #48
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Quote:
People want simple and easy
I can't blame them, I want simple and easy horses in my backyard. Horses with special needs cost more $$$ to keep. Why spend more than you have to?
It is just a common sense.
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, why do so many people have to use this tired argument that the only good horses out there are positives and that the ones that are negative are crap
If that's the case why the market is flooded with well bred PSSM carriers priced well below their value?
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Old 12-05-2013, 04:53 PM   #49
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It didn't worry me in the slightest if the results would be approved, admitted or required by AQHA. We've done it for own peace of mind, to know 100% what our breeding stock carries on the genetic level. It was worth every cent in my opinion.
We were lucky to get all negatives but I feel real sorry for those who's horses tested positive.
We have a winner!! Excellent post.. sums up most peoples feelings, Responsible breeding can take place without associations approval.

There was a rumour going round, may or may not be true, that one association had refused to publish adverts that mentioned pssm1 results since it was not a requirement!!
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Old 12-05-2013, 05:52 PM   #50
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There was a rumour going round, may or may not be true, that one association had refused to publish adverts that mentioned pssm1 results since it was not a requirement!!
They would be missing on few clients then!
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