Big Stallion Little Mare?!?

Carmadee · 28-01-2010, 07:16 AM

Of course, I know nothing about breeding so excuse my vagueness.
But i've always wanted to cross a clydie with my mare 15.2hh ASH.
One thing I'm worried about is if the foal (or stallion) may be too big.
I havent taken any steps to action this. Just thinking
What does everyone else think?

MyShadowfax · 28-01-2010, 07:42 AM

I don't know much about breeding myself but asked my vet about this subject once and he told me stories about Clydies being bred to shetlands!!

Obviously they used AI to impregnate the mare as the stallion was just way too big to mount the Shetland lol. Apparently once the mare is pregnant, the foal only grows to the right size for her to carry it to term and then once born they have been known to grow rather quickly!

I wouldn't think 15.2hh is too small to breed with a Clydie but like I said I'm no expert!

If you were thinking of doing it I would definitely get in contact with a good repro vet for advice

alexander · 28-01-2010, 08:03 AM

Hi Carmadee

Even if the mare is capable of carrying and delivering the foal I would not recommend the cross.

When breeding a cold blood horse to a hot blood it is not recommended that you cross the cold blood stallion with a hot blood mare, the reason being that you will generally get a foal with a large head, small body and cold blood attributes, such as the feathering on the feet.

Done the other way around the foals tend to have larger bodies and the refined head and legs of the mare, they also have the performance abilities of the stallion. The Irish sport horse is a good example of this. TB stallion to Irish draught mare.

I have done this cross a few times using Percheron mares, but never the other way around.

jacko88 · 28-01-2010, 10:52 AM

As for actual breeding and foaling side of it I don't think you'd have any dramas.
Was very common practice in some station country (and still is in some areas of northern SA) to run a heavy stallion (clydie or percheron) with the plant broodmares who would be of similar size to your mare.
Offspring are commonly known as "clumpers"!

Carmadee · 28-01-2010, 11:00 AM

Wow I didnt know any of this
I'd love to know more if anyone has more to add

Jadelise · 28-01-2010, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexander

Hi Carmadee

Even if the mare is capable of carrying and delivering the foal I would not recommend the cross.

When breeding a cold blood horse to a hot blood it is not recommended that you cross the cold blood stallion with a hot blood mare, the reason being that you will generally get a foal with a large head, small body and cold blood attributes, such as the feathering on the feet.

Done the other way around the foals tend to have larger bodies and the refined head and legs of the mare, they also have the performance abilities of the stallion. The Irish sport horse is a good example of this. TB stallion to Irish draught mare.

I have done this cross a few times using Percheron mares, but never the other way around.

Wow i never knew this, thanks for that info

ZaZa · 28-01-2010, 11:42 AM

I'm not a breeder, but I've always been lead to believe that the way Alexander described it best.
Blood over bone is what I've always been told

I always wonder why poeple choose to go the other way around ?
Maybe it's to do with the availablity of T/B mares. Much easier to pick one of them up and put a Clydie, Andy, Fesian etc over it ?

Good luck Carmadee with whatever you choose to do.

Carmadee · 28-01-2010, 12:04 PM

That conjours up funny pictures in my head now

te he

Siren · 29-01-2010, 09:16 AM

haha,

physically the mare will be able to carry the foal, the size of the stallion does not effect the size of the fetus to a point where they get too big- the fetus will just grow to be on the big end of the scale for what the mare can carry.

but in saying that, the way others have put it 'Blood over bone" is true, much better to go the other way around. Although I have seen some nice types from a heavy stallion breeding.

I have seen a foal resulting from a mini mare by a percheron x thoroughbred stallion - all natural!!! The mare escaped into the stallions paddock

The filly was born just a little bit smaller than her dam, but is now around the 14hh mark, and a very very nice looking little horse.

Seeing as though you already have the mare, and she is obviously is special to you. Id say go for it. But generally speaking, you would want to go the other way around.

breakawaystud · 29-01-2010, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carmadee

Of course, I know nothing about breeding so excuse my vagueness.
But i've always wanted to cross a clydie with my mare 15.2hh ASH.
One thing I'm worried about is if the foal (or stallion) may be too big.
I havent taken any steps to action this. Just thinking
What does everyone else think?

Hi,
I think I have already explained this to someone else but dont know how to find it and/or cut and paste it for you but here is a brief outline, in as simple terms as I can make it! You can yell at me if I get too technical, seems I am a bit of a geek!
The equine uterus and placenta interaction is unique in that it requires approx 95 % contact to be viable. So if a shetland mare is given a shire embryo, she will only produce, at birth, a foal the size of a normal shetland foal. However, if that foal has access to adequate nutrition etc it will be exactly the same size as the average foal born to shire dam.
Basically, the equine fetus only grows to its environment. The biggest known and proven causes of dystocia (stuck foals) is mare obesity and disturbance at foaling.The size of the sire over the dam is not usually associated with foaling or foal growth problems. The resultant foals size can however be associated with in-adequate nutrition. Perhaps some of the foal nutrition 'geeks' can help with that question.
Hope this helps.