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HORSE DISCUSSION FORUMS

admin · 16-06-2007, 07:05 AM

This sticky thread is only to be used by specialists as per the list below. If you would like to be added to this list please send me a private message. The idea of this thread is so all members have easy access to information provided by our specialist members pertaining to their area of expertise.

1. Colibanqh
2. GeeJay
3. Rose
4. Zoo
5. DanniS

cheers...admin

colibanqh · 16-06-2007, 09:58 AM

Hi All!!!
Admin put us on the top of the list (flattered), so I presume I am going to be the first one to share what we know on the above subjects. Please note that I am not stating that what we do and how we do it is the only way of doing things we do! LOl!! It works for us .
We hand serve all our mares. It gives us the first and the last day of service to estimate an approximate foaling date. For example, if we served a mare on the 01/09/06, the date will be 08/08/07. Take off 30 days from the last day and add 7-10 days. Please note that all the mares are different and has to be monitored individually. Some people check and avaluate a foaling day by the way a mare is looking on the outside. Usually but not always mares drop at the bum, their overall shape changes and a belly becomes more pointy, the udder fills up, the wax appears on the teats. We found on the personal experience that a mare can foal prematurely without give away signs. So that's why I start checking my mares on a daily basis 4 weeks prior to the estimated date.
We had so many sleepless nights during foaling seasons, relying on a foal alarm and visual observation only (we all know that it is not fun getting out of bed to see a mare snoring her head off), until I came across an info on a milk test. It is so simple, any one can do it and it will give you a pretty good idea when your mare will foal for you get ready and prepared. So, I milk my mares (not stripping buckets of colostrum of course, Lol!) One little squeeze on a palm twice a day will save you a lot of hassles. A mare won't foal until her colostrum goes from a clear sticky yellow to a more watery pearly/milky looking substance. As soon as you notice this change, foaling is not far off. I milk my mares twice a day, at the same time in the morning and at night and I RECORD all info onto each mare's file. Mares are usually pretty consistent with their foaling patterns.
This is it for the first session! Have a nice day! If you have any questions please PM me or ask in the breeding section.
Cheers, Lena.

GeeJay · 16-06-2007, 04:39 PM

I guess for us our breeding is only a small part of what we do but very important just the same to us.
Both been rider's and competitors in horse sports (not so much now in competiton)was the reason we breed the type we have. We also try to keep it as natural as possible were as the Mares and Stallion always run together even when foaling it has been like that for 8 years now.

What we breed are low maintananse, strong boned and very agile level headed performance horses.
We don't really keep any dates for foaling but the mares very rarely get in foal again when they have one the ground, usually when we wean at 6 months, they will get back in foal roughly 2 months after weaning which may seem odd with the Stallion allways in with them, but Mares naturaly switch themselves of and it is good as they have a reasonable break between foals.

We never interfere when the mare is due to foal we do keep an eye on them and if we have to help we will but touch wood they have always had there foals trouble free. Our Stallion always tells us when they are close as he keeps the due mare on her own and the other mares aren't allowed to come close till the foal is born and on its feet and drinking then he stands away but still keeps a watchful eye.

All this helps us understand the behavior of the horse and is very benerficial for training which I will go into later on, how much you need to do and the benifits of allowing them to be a horse natural for as long as you can. It helps them deal much easer with there life under saddle

One of our horses has just recently been sold on by her last owner for $15,000 and 100% sound, this gives us a great feeling of pride in what we breed and train and makes it all worth while

Janet

colibanqh · 17-06-2007, 11:41 AM

Hi All!
Tips on foaling mares ....
So after I've checked colostrum of a mare, and I can see even slightest change, we pull the mare out of a herd and bring her to the foal yard next to the house. I never leave the mare who I know going to foal unattended, I don't even go to work during the day time, coz 50% of our mares do foal during day or morning hours, it depends how comfortable they are with their environment and surroundings. In the post on foaling yards I have already decribed our set up, it is very basic, we do have lights, water, stables and crush on hand. I also have my birthing esky handy. I have a couple of clean sheets, iodine spray, soap solution, syringe with a soft rubber tip, baby oil, oxitocin and analgetic jabs. I will explain why I keep it handy further on when we get to foaling itself. Because foaling is such a quick and private process and usually happens during dark hours, not many people are previledged to witness it. It is a bonus to know behavioral patterns of your mare. I always look for a change in a pattern, if it is a quiet mare and suddenly you see her pacing, it means that she is getting uncomfortable, the same is if your mare walks the fence for hours and suddenly stops and goes quiet, then something going to happen pretty soon. Usually mares are looking for a place to give birth and if you notice where your mare prefers to hang around in a paddock (if she is not confined to the foaling yard), you'd find her there giving birth. Prior to foaling mares start sweating, it is a good indication. I do have a foaling alarm on a mare in the foaling yard, but we still take turns through the night to check on her in case she foals standing up (and it does happen) and it won't set the alarm off. We also worm a mare PRIOR to her giving birth, so a foal won't get them at the early stages through the dam's milk.
That's enough for today, in the follow up I will describe in detail a process of foaling itself and the complications we dealt with.
Cheers, Lena.

GeeJay · 17-06-2007, 05:05 PM

Hi
The first thing we do when the mare has foaled is find the after birth to make sure it has come away clean and hasn't been retained. If it has been retained it has to be removed very quickly as you will loose the mare as septicemia sets in and lots of complications.

With a Maiden mare it is important to be with them till you know the foal is drinking properly, often they won't let them drink and will go around in circles to try to aviod it, its very common we stand the mare up one of us holds her while the other guides the foal to nipple they often squeal and get agitated its no different for a women when they first breast feed its not pleasant at first infact its down right painfull so its just the same for a new mum horse, once they get the jist they are usual fine.

As far as handleing our foals we don't we basicly leave that up to mum, we will sit on a bucket after feeding the MARES and just be there, they can't help themselfs they have to come and check us out we let them but we don't try to touch them. Doing this now and again they soon get used to you and when they see you scratching there mums they start to want to know whats going on and before you no it you can't get rid of them LOL.

To be honest I have never seen 1 of our foals born I have tried it was when Sunny was having her first I sat up all night then my eyes shut and I fell a sleep woke up and there he was

she has had 7 foals since then LOL.

So this all I have to say about foaling as really for us thats it, our mares to a good job and its the best feeling watching them grow and play and be horses I will go onto weaning next.

Janet

GeeJay · 17-06-2007, 05:20 PM

Something important I forgot to mention if you do allow your mare to foal in the paddock, always remember especially with a maiden mare if you have other mares running with them often the domanant mare will take over the foal and not let the mother near, also never have a gelding in as they will steal the foals aswell. Thats why in the wild with no fences the mare will leave the heard to foal and thats when the Stallion comes in as he is allways alert.
Janet

colibanqh · 18-06-2007, 11:21 AM

Hi All!!!
Foaling process...
It starts with the waters breaking, a mare might be standing up or lying down. We always wait untill a mare is on the ground, then slowly get close to her back end. I always quietly talk to my mares, they know my voice and don't attempt to get up to get away. If we see a correct presentation of a foal (2 feet, one slightly ahead of the other and a nose resting on top of them), we give a mare a chance to foal without our assistance. Usually shoulders are the hardest to pass. If we see a mare struggling, then I get out my clean sheets, wrap it over the foal's legs(you can't have a good grip on slippery legs) and we slowly pull the foal out. We pull when the mare pushes.
I always break the sac to free a foal's nose, that it won't suffocate. As soon as shoulders are out, the rest of the body slipps out without any trouble. Sometimes it is quite an effort for myself and Brian to pull a foal out. If you are on your own, it is easier to sit down on the ground with your feet pushing against a mare's bum and pull a foal out. Once we both couldn't pull a foal out of our maiden mare, we were so lucky that a friend of ours just dropped by on her way to work and gave us a hand. 2 of us were pulling, gripping on one leg and Brian on the other. It was a very difficult foaling, a mare was a maiden and the foal wasn't presented correctly, it had one foot bent and pushing upwards ripping up the uterus wall. I saw that the mare was in big trouble so I had to reposition the foal very quicky to prevent the mare getting ripped from inside. It is not easy to push the foal back in to reposition it when the mare is pushing it out. I had to put both of my arms inside the uterus to find the other foot, straighten it and pull it out. I don't wear a watch and jewellery when we foal our mares and I always have an anticeptic solution handy to wipe my hands and arms if needed be. If we weren't there and If I didn't think fast what to do to help our mare out, we would've lost her and a foal. She was so buggered, she couldn't get up for couple of hours, we gave her a shot of a painkiller, the foal was a huge colt and was OK.
When a foal is out we check his nose and mouth (sometimes it could be blocked and needs to be cleaned out). We wait for a mare or a foal to get up , that breaks the umbilical cord. We ALWAYS spray the stub of the cord on the belly button with iodine or betadine solution to prevent an infection. After that you have to make sure that a new born foal is drinking and has pooped,passing the meconium. We always give a warm soapy(using grated baby soap) water enemas to new born colts, their pelvices are narrower than fillies and sometimes colts have troubles passing the meconium. A constipated new born foal will require an eargent vet assistance, so approx 20 mls of warm soapy water enema from the syringe with a soft rubber nozzle (not to damage the delicate walls of foal's bottom) is a very cheap precaution and prevention.
The last thing to attend to is an afterbirth. If you are not experienced enough, don't pull out the afterbirth yourself, you might break it and a piece of it might get retained, and it is BAD news, the mare might founder or die from infection. If a mare has an afterbirth still attached after 3-4 hours, then call a vet. I do pull out afterbirths myself but sometimes if I feel the resistance then we give a mare a jab of oxitocin, it makes the uterus contract and the the afterbirth gets expelled.
That's it for today!

Have a nice day!
Cheers, Lena.

zoo · 18-06-2007, 02:08 PM

It brings much joy and happiness to see a new foal enter the world, after waiting 11 long months to finally see the outcome of our breeding is truly an exciting and rewarding moment to witness.
I will do something a little different from Coliban and Geejay and do a chrononoligal report of an actual foaling so I would like to share with you the foaling of my 6 year old QH Palomino mare Leyla and the events that took place. This is Leyla’s second foal.

Leyla was last bred on the 16.01.06 So this gave an approximate due date for her to foal between 23 – 26 December 2006

14.12.06
7.00am – Routine check on mares, Leyla munching away on hay her udder is full has been this way for the past week. No other visible changes, no wax and her muscles in croup are still firm and tight. My concerns this morning are more with an over-due mare who has been running milk and waxing up for the past 7 days.

10.00am – Routine check on mares again, over-due mare searches my pockets for carrots, Leyla is standing at the fence waiting for hers. Leyla eats her carrots quite happily but I notice she is sweating on her neck. It was quite warm for this time of the day but I done the normal and checked the teats for any sign of wax. Nothing. In my opinion the mare is not ready to foal as her croup was still very firm and had not dropped. Leyla walks off to the other end of the paddock quite happy.

10.20am- Decide to check on Leyla again just have this gut feeling something is not right. She is now dripping with sweat on her neck and flanks, her udder is hot and sweaty with tiny tiny droplets of wax hanging. I glance at the over-due mare and shake my head. I head back to the house and get my foaling bag (which consists of halter, clean towels, betadine in a spray bottle, mobile phone and of course the camera) Inform daughter we are not going shopping.

10.25am – Leyla lays down with neck stretched out and begins to strain, the first amniotic fluid appears. She then gets up and walks a few steps and lays back down again.

10.30am – Watching very quietly and closely the first leg appears with the second slightly behind. Everything is looking normal and correctly presented.

10.35am- Leyla attempts to get up unsuccessfully and continues to strain. At this point you can see the two front legs and lots of fluid come out of the mare. The muzzle of the foal has appeared and you can see its tonque sticking out of the side. This is normal and for someone who has not seen this before can think the foal is dead. (I have seen foals being born who have even tried to open their eyes) At this point when I see the foals muzzle I break the sac so that the amniotic fluid can drain out.

10.45am- Front legs and muzzle are still presented and the mare appears to be tiring, the temp is in the mid 30’s and we are in the full sun.

10.55am- Front legs and muzzle are still presented the same nothing has changed, so I decide to give the mare a help and pull the foal out. Once the shoulders were out the mare pushed the rest of the foal out herself.

11.00am – The foal is born and the mare is laying flat out exhausted. Still attached by the umbilical cord the mare lays for a few moments and then decides to get up and breaks the cord. Never be tempted to cut the cord, the mare will either get up and break it or the foal will break it on his/her attempt at getting up. Leyla then lays down again and has a rest.

Once the cord is broken I like to spray the naval with betadine and also check the sex of the foal. I also check the mouth for abnormalities such as cleft pallet and parrot mouth. Provided everything is ok and the foal is not in any distress I rub the foal all over, rub its ears and mouth, basically touching the foal all over for approx 15 – 20 mins. I find for myself this small time spent imprinting the foal very beneficial and they are less afraid of human contact. Do not attempt this unless you know your mare and she is quite happy for you to be with her baby.

11.25am – Leyla returns to her feet and comes to say hello to her new baby and gives him a lick.

I check the mare for any tearing or abnormal bleeding, everything is ok.

This is my turn to now leave mum and baby to bond and I sit quietly watching. I stay and watch until the foal is standing and trying to suckle.

Some mares Particularly maidens as Geejay said need to be held whilst a second person guides the foal to the milk bar. New born foals are lovely to watch looking for the milk bar as they lick and suck on mums legs and everywhere but the right place at first.

12.00 – Levi has finally latched onto the teat and is suckling well. My turn to go to the house and make a cuppa and give them some time alone.

12.30pm- Return to Leyla and her baby and Levi is resting happily with mum standing over him. Poop under his tail indicates that he has passed his first meconium and he is not constipated. Colts seem to be more constipated than fillies and a lot of studs tend to give an anenema as routine.

1.00pm- After birth has been expelled, and is in one piece. Oxytocin can be administered if the after birth does not come away by itself, if it has been retained for more than 4 hours it is adviseable to seek veterinary advise.

It is a good idea to keep notes on individual mares and how the foaling went so that you have something to compare with each time and if ever in doubt ring your vet for advise or assistance. A normal foaling is quick and a foal is normally delivered within 30 minutes from the first appearance of the front legs. There is a great book available call The Complete Book of Foaling by Karen E N Hayes. It is easy to read with lots of photos and explanations.

Hope you enjoyed the foaling down of Levi.

colibanqh · 19-06-2007, 12:09 PM

Good Job Zoo! Pictures are always a bonus!

A new born foal....
We usually keep a mare with a new baby for 4-6 days around the homested, making sure that's everything is OK, the foal got enough colostrum for its immune system, drinking and pooping well. We run empty mares, pregnant mares and wet mares (with foals at foot) separately. If you notice that a foal looks lethargic, sleeps a LOT, swells up in legs and joints or any other abnormal signs, contact your vet straight away. I also spray the stub of the belly button with betadine once a day untill it dries off. We don't handle new borns, they are left to be a horse. If a foal looks strong and healthy, we let the mare and a foal out into big acreage. There is nothing better for milk production in lactating mares and foal developement than a good green pasture. We check on mares and foals twice a day for safety reasons. They stay with their dams till 4 months old, then we wean them off.
Cheers, Lena.

GeeJay · 20-06-2007, 02:10 PM

Hi
This is a time where you have to organised in advance and has to be as stress free as possible as it is the time we take over from the mums.
Because our Stallion is part of this for a start we have to make sure the run from the paddock to the holding yard is free of distractions, so all other horses are out of sight.

We wean our foals at 6 months no later than 8 months by this time they are eating hard feeds well pinching there mums, grass and hay, they are also spending time on there own and are less dependant towards there mums.
This is last time foals in this pic they are 5 1/2 months and well grown they are now close to 2 year old's.

We bring them from there paddock up the lane way to the yard the Stallion knows and leads the way and knows whats going on getting rid of the kids time

Once we get them up to the yard they have hay and we leave them for a day and night to settle and for the foals to get used to there new place as this is were they will stay when we take the mares and the Stallion away.

Will leave it for now
Till tommorow Janet

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