Discussion in 'Horse Management' started by Nattyh, Jun 17, 2012.

  1. Nattyh

    Nattyh Guest

    Hi guys,
    I have recently picked up a new pony and even though the owner assured me it was wormed 10 days ago I decided to stop at the vet on the way home and get it drenched. Well thank goodness I did!

    It is currently pooing out 20 to 30cm roundworms - which is just soooo disgusting #( I have to say :mad:
    It is also pooing out small strongyles and this is the reason for my post...

    The small strongyles are still wriggling eeeeewwww! :eek::eek:

    I will contact my vet first thing tomorrow, but has anyone had this happen to them? If you have, do you think the pony will need to go back for another dose or is it part of the process that the strongyles come out still kicking and thats OK because they are dying anyway?

    The roundworms are coming out dead by the way. Eeeewwwwww.

    Anyone who has see this before, I am just curious while waiting to speak to my vet :confused:

    Thanks every one
  2. kp

    kp Well-known Member

    Very, very gross!

    Have had this happen to me. Wormed a yearling that I had picked up, it had these huge roundworms still alive in its manure. Nothing beats having to kill the worm in the manure before picking it up first thing in the morning. I nearly lost my breakfast!

    I wormed him a few days later, and then at three week intervals twice. I used a Metin initially and then used fenbendazole for the last worming.

    You might also consider getting some Panacur (the cattle one) and double dosing everyday for 7 days.

    I also kept mine of the paddocks until I had finished worming.
  3. Nattyh

    Nattyh Guest

    Oh wow kp, i just can't imagine what it must have been like seeing those big suckers squirming around :eek::eek:

    It sounds like he will need repeated worming based on your experience.';'

    Yeah, just so gross.

    Of course I was reading up all about them once I saw them in his manure - and it said they go up into their lungs kp!! I suppose you already knew that, but oh my good lord. How disgusting!! Poor little ponies!
  4. kp

    kp Well-known Member

    Definitely not nice. Don't really know what is right or wrong. And am sure there will be a whole bunch of different opinion. But multiple wormings with different drugs made sense to me.
  5. Blackbat

    Blackbat Well-known Member

    Call Wormwatch maybe? Could recommend a treatment and egg count regimen for you?
  6. Nattyh

    Nattyh Guest

    Thank kp and Blackbat - I never knew about wormwatch!

    I did ring the vet this morning.

    Apparently roundworms are not a 'resistant' worm, so if as he is pooing these out ad lib. 24hrs after I had him drenched, then he most definately was not wormed 10 days ago. What a big surprise :}

    The vet's advice was to worm him again in 3 to 4 weeks with an oral wormer paste and then wait another 4 weeks and put him on a some sort of 5 day wormer course.

    Sorry to those interested I can't remember exactly what the 5 day course was called, but basically I have to do him again in a month and then he will have another treatment from the vet a month after that.

    Poor little boy :(

    Thanks again kp and blackbat.:))

    PS the roundworms are STILL coming out ! Disgusting!!
  7. wormwatch

    wormwatch Active Member

    Roundworms (Parascaris equorum) resistant to ivermectin (and probably abamectin and moxidectin) are present in WA. These are typically also resistant to fenbendazole (Panacur) - either single or 5-day dose. Generally a treatment with pyrantel or morantel remains effective, but the only real way to know efficacy is by testing pre- and post-treatment.
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  8. Noelle

    Noelle Gold Member

    That's revolting Natty (and I just happen to be eating my lunch as well :p ) .

    Excuse my ignorance if my next questions seem dumb, but if the roundworms are resistant to ivermectin then what is making them pass through with the manure? Is it another active worming agent or is this just a natural process, seeing as the worms are alive. Do wormers kill the worms in the gut and they are passed out dead or can they still be alive when they hit the ground?

    I really should do more reading up on this stuff. We just worm our horses and dont think anymore about it. I have never seen any worms in their manure, dead or alive. (Not that I am saying that they may not be there, just that I cant see them.)
  9. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    Noelle the worms that are resistant may very well be being "carried" through with the mass of paralysed(dead) other types of worm the horse is infested with :(
  10. Floggadog

    Floggadog Guest

    When you think about it, the lifecycle of the worm is such that the worms lay eggs whilst in the gut. It's the eggs that are passed via manure onto the pasture & the eggs or subsequent larvae that the horse picks up via the mouth that completes the lifecycle.
    Live worms aren't going to live long nor I'm 'guessing' reproduce once passed from the horse to the pasture.
  11. wormwatch

    wormwatch Active Member

    Not all worms can be seen in manure. Some are too small to see easily with the naked eye. Worm eggs are certainly too small (<0.1mm).

    Not all roundworms are resistant, but likelwise not all are necessarily susceptible to different treatments. Resistance is an inherited trait. Depending on which genes they have, some worms may remain susceptible to higher doses or susceptible to different treatments in the same family. There is typically more than one gene that confers resistance and the combination of genes will determine what treatments and doses remain effective. As resistant genes become more common in the worm population, then more worms survive treatment.

    The original poster assumed that the pony wasn't treated, but all you can really say is that pony wasn't effectively treated. The previous owner could have used a treatment that is not effective due to resistance (I've seen egg counts go up after treatments), or maybe the pony was underdosed (underestimated weight), spat out part of the treatment and so on. Apparent underdosing is quite common in my experience. Or maybe the pony wasn't treated at all.

    If the vet gave the horse a liquid wormer with an oil drench 2 weeks after another treatment, then those worms passed after 2nd treatment could have been susceptible to the different chemical or to the same chemical at the full (corect) dose.

    The worms that are generally infective to horses have either emerged from eggs (immature) or are encased inside an egg. Adult worms will die faily quickly once passed out with manure and generally are not infective to other horses.

    Roundworm (Parscaris) eggs can survive for a long time in the environment, so susceptible horses should be monitored and/or treated in case of re-infection. Your vet has probably given you some advice on this already.

    Good luck. Hopefully your worming programme will get those worms under control and you can carry on enjoying your pony.
  12. wormwatch

    wormwatch Active Member

    Not dumb questions. The worms that you see passed are likely to be sick and dying as a result of the treatment. It is also possible that some resistant worms have been caught up and "pushed" through by a mass of other worms, but it's likely that most of the effect dislodging the larger Parascaris worms was due to the treatment. Different treatments work in different ways, but many will weaken or paralyse the worm. So yes, they can be alive when passed, but as Floggadog said, usually not for long and they can't carry on to breed, produce eggs and so on outside of their usual location in the horse :)

    Worms left in the gut are, by definition, not susceptible to the treatment that was given at the dose that was used. They might be "unwell" for a while, and this might slow down their egg production etc, but a resistant worm will survive the treatment and eventually get back to doing what worms do.
  13. Nattyh

    Nattyh Guest

    Hi Noelle, I just notice your post - sorry.

    The vet told me that the round worms were the least resistant - they are coming out dead and I think its reasonable to assume that is because the worming treatmet killed them :))

    They were probably coming out at a rate of 2 or 3 per poo pile. They have stopped coming now by the way.

    The adult strongyles were the ones still still wriggling but in their deaththrows. Yuk

    I have researched quite a bit on worms since this exciting episode. And apparently the roundworm eggs can survive in the paddock for up to 6 years!! I hope you didn't read that over your breakfast!

    I seen roundworms come out before like this in another young horse I bought someyears ago that I also presume wasn't wormed. Yukko.
  14. Noelle

    Noelle Gold Member

    No, I am eating my lunch, that time of day again. I really should know better than to read this thread at lunch time. :p

    It is interesting reading, despite the urghh factor. I used to get emailed newsletters from wormwatch but havent had any for ages. Must chase it up.
  15. Koolie

    Koolie Active Member

    just a tip for u all... dont eat noodle soup while reading this tread!! hahah
  16. InkibahD

    InkibahD Well-known Member

    Im glad ive got my own paddock now and mine dont seem to have any worms, have decided to push my worming regime out to 8 weeks this month and see if i can notice any symptoms

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