Worms! Worms!

Discussion in 'Horse Management' started by Angimac, Oct 16, 2008.

  1. Angimac

    Angimac Well-known Member

    Elvis wasn't feeling well this morning and had diarrhea and has gotten sand colic when ever the autumn/winter and spring/summer changes occur (this hasn't happened since upping the hay intake) I thought I would see how much sand was in his poop. I took a large handful from 2 poops that was on grass and put it into a 1 litre icecream tub and filled it with water and waited a few hours and then flushed it out with the hose.
    When it was clear there was a bit of sand in the bottom of the container, but there was also 10 red worm/blood worm eggs as well. (I am going to redo the test again tomorrow with just one piece of poop for sand content.)
    I googled 'horse worm egg photos' and they look like the eggs being sold as red worm eggs for growing your own fishing bait.
    Elvis is wormed according to the Virbac worm control program during the 3rd week of the designated month, should it be at the start of the month. He was stomach drenched for worms earlier in the year. I read someone lost their horse after worming, should I give him Equimax now and then give him Strategy-T (which is due next week) in 14 days?
    Sorry its such an epic!
  2. jonty

    jonty Well-known Member

    I would suggest you just worm him with a Oxfendazole base wormer called Benzelmin Paste....!
  3. Angimac

    Angimac Well-known Member

    Jonty thank you very much for the response. I am just worried if it is a high burden of worms, I seem to remember that a Stockie lost a horse after worming.
  4. Angimac

    Angimac Well-known Member

    I just googled 'worms in horses' on the Petalia site John Kohkne(sp) wrote that redworms (which are what your trying to get rid this month) are now resistant to bendazole!
  5. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    Angimac, go to the advertises on here down the bottom and check out WormWatch. If you would like to know about worms, worming regimens, resistance and worm eggs then they are definitely the experts here in WA!

    WITCHERY Well-known Member

    I have been reading about worming lately and comman problems are that people are under worming their horses. I would try a get a correct wt of your horse and ask worm watch what they would think is a good wormer for your problem.
  7. maxntaz

    maxntaz Well-known Member

    Also, have you been regularly changing your wormers, so that he hasnt become resitant to the wormers you are using?
  8. BitBankAustralia

    BitBankAustralia Well-known Member

    Worm Watch

    Hi, I can highly recommned Work Watch as well, they can not only give you an accurate picture of what is going on (for a very small fee) but they can offer advise as well. I'm pretty sure they are qualified vets.
  9. Angimac

    Angimac Well-known Member

    Thank you Retroremedy, Witchery, maxntaz and BellaEquestrian for the info on Worm Watch. I will have a look at the website for the details.
  10. wormwatch

    wormwatch Active Member

    Thanks guys.

    If your horse has been colicking and you are finding worms in the manure, then you really need to discuss your worming programme with a vet. Treating established worm burdens can be complicated, particularly in a sick horse and there are a number of factors that would determine what treatment would be recommended. Your vet can consider the general health of your horse and help you decide on the most appropriate treatment based on the specific circumstances.

    A pre- and post-treatment worm egg count would be strongly recommended to establish how well the different types of worming treatment are working on your property. If you horse has accumulated a worm burden, this is likely to be as a result of (a) resistance has developed to the treatments, or (b) you are treating at inappropriate intervals, or (c) the treatments given are not appropriate for the specific types of worms that have accumulated (some drugs do not treat certain species of worms or worms in certain stages of development).

    It's important to establish the reason that the worm burden has accumulated so you can fix the worm control programme to prevent the problem from recurring.

    It would also be worth testing any other horses on the same property and thinking about how you are going to manage grazing on pastures that have been contaminated with immature worms that can reinfect horses grazing that pasture.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2008
  11. wormwatch

    wormwatch Active Member

    I just re-read the original post. I mistook the post as you found redworms in the manure sample, not eggs. Sorry about that mistake.

    Most of the common horse parasite worm eggs are not visible to the human eye. Most strongyle eggs (laid by the large and small strongyles aka blood worms and red worms) are less than 100um long (or less than 0.1mm long). That's why we need to use a good microscope to do a worm egg count :)

    If you can count red worm eggs with your eyes, that is most excellent and you should come and work for me :) Perhaps the eggs you saw were not horse parasite worm eggs? Or you have bred an enormous drug-resistant "superworm" :0

    Either way, a worm egg count will let you know what's going on :)

    It sounds like an intriguing mystery! :)
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2008
  12. Angimac

    Angimac Well-known Member

    I am confused now lol, as I said googled 'horse egg photos' and it showed a photo of red worm eggs with a little bit of dirt on someones hand, they are selling them to grow your own fishing bait. hmmmm
  13. wormwatch

    wormwatch Active Member

    I suspect the redworms they sell for bait are not horse parasitic worms. I don't have time now to look up the bait worms, but perhaps someone else will know what species they are.

    Try googling images of "strongyle worm egg" or "horse strongyle egg" and you can see the microscopic images of the eggs. They are oval shaped and usually less than 0.1mm long.

    I'll be in and out of internet contact this week, but don't hesitate to get in contact with any questions. Happy googling :)
  14. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    What you have googled is a variety of "earthworm" not an internal parasitic worm.

    cheers, RR
  15. RPS

    RPS Well-known Member

    Question for Wormwatch based on the following

    My horses are wormed regularly and wormer is rotated, we pick up manure from paddocks and stables daily. My problem is that my feral of a neighbour NEVER picks up any manure from his stables or paddocks.

    We share a common fence line. and i've resorted to putting a second fence line 3metres from the dividing fence to stop my horses from being able to come into contact with his.

    1. How much risk are my horses at from contact with his if they are worm infested?

    2. Is stopping any type of contact sufficient to keep my horses safe?
  16. Angimac

    Angimac Well-known Member

    Wormwatch thanks, I googled lol my eyesight isn't that good! The eggs are microscopic.
    Retroremedy thankyou for letting me know, does that mean Elvis is eating earthworms! hehe
  17. wormwatch

    wormwatch Active Member

    Most of the parasitic worms are spread by horses eating immature worms that have emerged from manure passed by infected horses. So the worms can spread in manure or on pasture once they have left the manure balls.

    There are some exceptions. Ascarid worm eggs are sticky, survive for years and can spread on horses, gear etc, but these are more common in young horses (under 2 years old) and should be managed with routine treatments in susceptible horses. Tapeworms are spread by small mites that live in the pasture and so it's possible these could transfer tapeworms between properties. Obviously bot flies can also spread between properties, and there are other parasites that can be spread by biting insects (such as Onchoserca).

    The most common (and serious) worms infecting horses are the large and small strongyle worms (sometimes nick named red worms or blood worms). Immature strongyle worms are spread over greater areas by heavy rainfall/reticulation and spreading manure, but the worms themselves generally don't travel "long" distances on their own. The risk of parasitic worms travelling "over the border" would depend on a number of factors, but in reality any pasture contamination occuring from the neighbours' pasture should be fairly easy to manage with a good parasite control programme on your own property.

    Without knowing your exact situation, the best thing you can do for your own horses is is manage any worm burdens in your own horses (which you are doing with routine treatments) and on the pasture (which you are doing with manure removal). Paddock rotation can be tricky over autumn-winter-spring in Perth as worms can survive on paddocks for months. Regular monitoring (worm egg counts) will help provide information on how well your control programme is working to control the numbers of adult worms in your horses and if any changes to the worm control programme are needed. Even with routine (frequent) treatments and good manure management, routine monitoring is still recommended to ensure that resistance to treatment isn't developing and that the whole programme is working as expected. Routine monitoring should pick up "small problems" before they blow up into "big problems".

    If you send me a PM with your e-mail address, I can send you a copy of the newsletters that contain a fair bit of information on horse parasites, pasture management and so on that you might find helpful. They are free and targeted to horse owners who want to understand the principles behind "best practice parasite management".
  18. wormwatch

    wormwatch Active Member

    Too bad - the ability to see microscopic eggs would be quite a cool (and lucrative) superhero power :)

    You have to keep us informed of your detective work. There are lots of interesting and cool things to be found in manure :)
  19. Angimac

    Angimac Well-known Member

    Yes Wormwatch that would have been cool. I used to have very good long vision, see the bus number coming half way down the road sort of thing, now the old peepers have trouble after dark.
    Have found interesting things in the manure, it used to be really good things like dung beetles, you had to get to the yard before they did or you would have to try and pick up remanents of the feed out of the sand. But I noticed with the increase in temperature the decrease in the types and numbers of dung beetles. There are more flies now.

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