Worming horses with tummy issues

Discussion in 'Horse Management' started by Cornflower, Aug 29, 2010.

  1. Cornflower

    Cornflower Well-known Member

    So it's that time again, and i need to worm, but i have no idea what's safe for a horse with possible digestive issues, maybe ulcers also.
    What brands are best?
    What ingredients should i stear clear of?

    Also, he's currently on Yea Sac, but i'm thinking of giving him a dose of Rebound after worming? Since Yea Sac is a yeast, not a probiotic, is this a good idea, or will be overdoing it?

    And one last question, has anyone used herbal/natural wormers, and how did you find them?
     
  2. Leti loves Elmo

    Leti loves Elmo Well-known Member

    If you suspect ulcers best option is to just get the full treatment. Either omogaurd, ulcerguard etc. Though the yeast would be really good for it if he does. Before all ulcerguard and stuff was invented everyone use to feed yeast straight. I think just keep on with good amounts of yeast in the mean time

    I dont think there is a specific wormer for sensitive stomachs though just go for the really nice brands, the well known. Always pays to ask at the feed shop too, the guys can be really helpful ith ingredients :)*
     
  3. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    Have seen some pretty extreme results from possibly the wrong wormer on an ulcered horse, so I will be interested to read any thoughts. Would love to see a pH balanced worming paste :p
     
  4. Ponies4Me

    Ponies4Me Well-known Member

    Stick with straightforward basic compounds such as Equimec. Steer clear of the "double whammy" drug mixes until you know whats going on. That was the advise given by my vet for our delicate horse (post colic surgery).

    Horses that are sensitive to wormers should not be wormed on an empty stomach. I feed up in the morning, wait half an hour after they've finished eating and then do them. The old horse used to lay down grunting for half an hour with tummy ache straight after worming, was fine as soon as we adopted the above method.

    If on the other hand you suspect something like a small redworm problem Equest should give the nasties a run for their money.

    Yea sac great stuff in my book **) keep the Princess is on it all the time. Natural worming can cause other problems depending on what you use. Not knocking natural, just been to hell and back with my own horse and was never game to do/give anything that wasn't vet approved at the time.

    Would be interested to know your horses story Cornflower, I keep reading that you have digestive issues, think ulcers but not responding to treatment?
     
  5. Jonty3

    Jonty3 Guest

    Horses can be wormed on a empty stomach (best to do so) not Ammo though....

    Colic Surgery is a whole different matter.....Ulcers are not!

    What was the wormer you last used (what was the active I mean?)
    Have you had a FEC Done? if so what was the results?
     
  6. Cornflower

    Cornflower Well-known Member

    Leti, already done all that. He's had a course of Omoguard.

    Ponies, what do you mean by 'double wammy' drug mixes?
    My horse's story is a long one, lol.
    Yes, i still suspect something is up since i noticed no change after the course of Omo. Bare in mind that i did this without scoping, so it was not a confirmed diagnosis based on tests.

    I now want to speak to my vet about blood tests, as well as scoping as i want to rule out not just ulcers, but other digestive diseases as well. I'm just not happy with how he is.

    Jonty, i have not had a fecal count done. How do you do it? The last wormer i used was the pellet one, Equimec or Equimax?

    He is always a little quiet for a day or 2 after worming, but the only one he's reacted to badly was Oxyminth. He was off for a few days after that one. Never used it again.
     
  7. Jonty3

    Jonty3 Guest

    I would highly recommend that you have a Egg Count done through your vet and they can tell you if you need to do it or not!

    Best not going and putting product into your horse if you dont need to if he has had a bout of illness.....thats not to say others need to not worm there horses. This is a suspected isolated case and normally requires vet assistance.
    I have also had people say that they have had horses go down with colic after Ammo and Oxyminth....not sure why though!

    I would also highly recommend that you take this horse to Murdoch and have him scoped, there is another thread going about people just self diagnosing and treatment without confirmation!!!
     
  8. Cornflower

    Cornflower Well-known Member

    He wasn't self diagnosed. He was diagnosed by a vet. It was recommended that he go on Omoguard instead of scoping due to the cost. Apparantly, this is the done thing ';' The vet said they only scope if not responding to treatment, but other than that, if it sounds like ulcers, everyone just treats as though it is.

    Yes, the plan now is bloods and scope. But as he's due to be wormed (i do so every 3 months), i just wanted to get that done and out of the way.

    Also, it's not a bout of illness. He's had problems for a while, and i'm slowly going through the checklist, trying to figure out what's up. But as ulcers have been suspected, and maybe other tummy troubles, i'm just being cautious at the moment as to what i put down his throat until i get the tests done.
     
  9. Jonty3

    Jonty3 Guest

    You need to have the horse diagnosed before any treatment.... They may say its cheeper in the long run, but long term medication for stomach issues (what ever they are) can and do cause long term problems....

    But your call!
     
  10. Ponies4Me

    Ponies4Me Well-known Member

    Cornflower quite a few wormers have more than one active ingredient in them nowadays, supposed to be more effective in the war on worms etc. So the advise given to me by my vet was to use a very simple compound wormer. This was for the horse with a sensitive stomach, not the colic surgery horse. As I said earlier since using this approach I've not had any further problems when worming.

    Jonty has a good point re egg count. If there is a worm problem that could be causing some of your problems? At least an easy one to check for.
     
  11. Cornflower

    Cornflower Well-known Member

    Jonty, yes, i realise this and i agree. But you're making it sound like i just thought this up and chucked him on anything. And that was certainly not the case! The recommendation to put him on the Omoguard was given to me by 2 vets (the one who diagnosed him as well as my regular vet), as well as reading all the replies to the many ulcer thread on here (mine included). The first vet that originally saw him was convinced he had cronic ulcers and to treat now. So i didn't just do it blindly.
    And he is no longer on any medication.

    Ponies, i was at the stockfeeders yesterday, and every single wormer i picked up had at least 2 active ingredients. I may need to go to the horse shop. They may have a wider range. Can i ask which wormer you use?
    He has always been up to date with his worming, and i've not seen any symptoms pointing to worms. But you never know. And yes, i am keen to do the egg count. Just need to hear back from the vet regarding that, as well as bloods and scoping.
     
  12. Leti loves Elmo

    Leti loves Elmo Well-known Member

    I agree that you dont have to scope before treatment for ulcers. If they dont do have uclers then the treatment does nothing. At the worst you horse will lick his bowl everynight. Every horse at my work is on omoguard regardless. Even without ulcers it helps them eat.

    Scoping now is the option. How long have you had your horse for. Horses that have had ulcers long term and once diagnosed and treated can still need to stay on it. The lining of the stomach has coped it for so long that its best to do this. I know a horse that had a worm infestation as a yearling and destroyed the lining on his stomach and he cant eat without ulcerguard.
     
  13. Jonty3

    Jonty3 Guest

    Dont mean to sound like it is just something you dreampt up over night because your horse "May" have a problem ( I see this regualrly) Im sure you will act on good recommendations on two or more vets....

    I have just had and seen friends that have had terrible rides along the way with being treated for ulcers and the horses actually not having them 6 years later and never being diagnosed properlly, thats all....Im sorry if I sounded rude or attacking I certainly dont mean too....:)* Just want to make others realise that going to the cupboard and treating them without a confirmation of the problem beforehand.....

    Good Luck! @)
     
  14. Cornflower

    Cornflower Well-known Member

    Jonty, no problem. I appreciate your advice, and i can understand where you're coming from. :))
    The initial diagnosis was almost 2 months ago, and the Omo treatment lasted 1 month. So it's not something that's been going on for years, i wouldn't leave it that long.
    I was going to get blood tests first and see what they showed, and if something wasn't adding up, then scope. But i've decided it would be better to scope first, as it will show up everything, including inflammation and anything else that may be odd, as well as the ulcers.

    Any other ideas regarding the worming? I can't be the only person here with a horse with ulcers or who is careful about diet/feeds :confused:
     
  15. crputter

    crputter Active Member

    Cornflower I have a horse agisted at mine that has ongoing digestive issues and my vet has recommeded we worm him with product called Panacur 100.

    This horse colics frequently, often scours. He can't be on grass and can't eat anything other then chaff and liberty pellets (OMG!! painful horse) or he colics. He has had bloods, poo cultures, poo drenches (the liquid from other horses poo drenched into him YUK!!!) and mutiple vet visits from at least 3 different vets. And we are still going...
    He is on 50ml of Panacur daily for 5 days. maybe you could ask your vet about this option??
    Goodluck!
     
  16. Cornflower

    Cornflower Well-known Member

    Thanks for that :) Will ask about it.
     
  17. Caroline

    Caroline Well-known Member

    Dont use AMMO as it is very harsh to the gut and often triggers colic!#:)mad:

    Do use a basic ivermectin based wormer.**)

    Try slippery elm powder for 3 months after OmoGuard. It heals the stomach and GI tract beautifully, and fab for ulcer cases! 2 tablespoons daily sprinkled on top of the hardfeed and lightly covered over. Dont wet SEP as such.:)*:))
     
  18. Ponies4Me

    Ponies4Me Well-known Member

    Sorry Cornflower missed this. I used Equimec and Panacur on the old horse - never had another issue with him.

    Which is I see what others have already posted. Would steer well clear of Equest and Ammo til you know whats going on JMO :)))
     
  19. Cornflower

    Cornflower Well-known Member

    Caroline, never used Ammo, as not heard great things about it.
    Straight after the Omo, he went back on aloe vera gel, but once the container finished, i have not got another one. He's been on chamomile and Yea Sacc since, and has been fine. I also started him on rosehips about 2wks ago. The aloe gel was recommended by the vet who saw him originally as excellent for healing ulcers.
    I'm planning to put him on a container (1lt) every couple of months.
    But maybe do a course of SE instead?

    Why not wet the SE? His feeds are dampened, but only very slightly (can't even feel it's damp) so would that matter? Or give him a totally dry feed?

    Ponies, yep, looks like the Equimec is the way to go.

    Thank you guys! Much appreciated :))
     

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