wiggle wiggle WHACK!!

Discussion in 'Training Horses' started by IbanezGirl, Mar 6, 2010.

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  1. FDPH

    FDPH Guest

    Yes this the sheer truth of it, I might add that in the last few weeks a memorial clinic was held for Ray Hunt...Jason Leitch was invited to participate but Pat Parrelli was not, even after many pestering phone calls! Unfortunateley the allmighty dollar has led an individuals talents astray, it has become about the money not the horse and the client. I do still think that there are many"dodgy"horsemen out there not just the Parelli's. Perhaps it is because they are so high profile and market themselves so aggressiveley.
     
  2. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Anyone else notice in the video that the "22 foot Parelli" leadrope looked like it was a complete nuisence for Linda?.....I thought any minute now she is going to get that thing wrapped all around her legs and go ass over turkey!

    For a "professional, international icon" she looked cumbersome and all thumbs!
    In fact I'd say she mimiced a complete amature in her training display.

    You could hear her puffing and the exasberation in her sighs was very evident....something a horse picks up on very easily and reacts accordingly.

    I feel more inspiration watching Hells Kitchen!!!
     
  3. FDPH

    FDPH Guest

     
  4. Faxie

    Faxie Well-known Member

    Gosh you guys are tough... i personally choose to look at the good points of a person, we ALL make mistakes, its just that most of them arent recorded on video LOL!! I'm off to hide and hope to never be seen by you people in public PMSL
     
  5. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Sorry Faxie but when you hold yourself up to be a training icon and take millions of dollars from people you actually OWE it to them to be kocsher...on camera & off. Linda cannot afford to "make mistakes"......unless of course everyone wants to line up for a refund.
     
  6. Cornflower

    Cornflower Well-known Member

    **)

    (my highlights for emphasis)

    And when you do make a mistake, get off your high horse and admit it, so all the devotees following your every move know that what you did was wrong. Don't make excuses.
    The horrible thing from this is the flow-on effect of all those devotees thinking this bevaviour is acceptable, and applying it to other horses. All those poor horses because of one woman's arrogance. And ignorance.
     
  7. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    Well said EVP and Cornflower.

    Faxie why are you even trying to defend the indefendable?

    I have also seen footage of Pat "behind the scenes" giving a horse a "tune up" before going on show, and it makes Linda look rather gentle.

    I have no faith in either of these people, I just feel sad for those that buy the doctrin lock stock and smoking barrel.
     
  8. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    I feel for the horses owned by anyone who watched that video and thinks its OK..... :(

    A metal clip was NEVER designed to belt a horse under the chin with!!!

    Curb chains do exhert pressure under the chin, but not with such force behind them (one would hope a medium + rider doesnt need to or want to do such things!)

    Its also a bit like, if you push a chunk of metal into someone it creates pressure without hurting, if you fling it at them and hit them with it it bloody hurts!

    this video is not ok.
     
  9. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    I don't know alot about the Parelli endorsed products but arn't they designed to be 'more natural' so that LESS force is needed?

    I wonder why Linda proceeded to "argue" with that horse and didn't take it into a round pen where she would have had the benefit of confinement to aid restraint, better horse focus and few distractions?

    Again, training is about setting the horse up to succeed so that the lessons become easier.
    1) Where there is more 'reward' there is more 'try'.
    2) Where there is more 'resistance' there is less 'reward'

    These 2 simple things have made 'training' for me (someone with lots of physical limitations) easier.
    How can anyone attempt to teach a horse something out in an open space....try teaching a bunch of 8 year olds some detailed maths while sitting at a soccer match!!!!!!!!
    Set them up in an appropriate place that says "we are here so that you listen to and see me and cannot evade me".......and you have a place of real learning....the results will follow.
     
  10. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    i agree with the set them up to succeed points! If things go pear shaped ask for something SO easy for the horse and reward it, then get harder and reward every single try. They need to understand what you want and that there is reward in it for them. I love watching horses develop a good work ethic because they are rewarded for their effort, they seek out that reward!
     
  11. Faxie

    Faxie Well-known Member

    Well i've watched the whole 18 minutes of the session, so there is a lot more to it than the 4mins in the clip which of course shows all of the tough parts. All Linda was requesting of the horse was to not go forward and run over the human. Thank god she stepped in and took over is all i can say the owner was completely railroaded in a potentially dangerous situation (its hands over eyes stuff!). The horse repeatedly tries to run the owner over. At the end of the session after Linda's help he was respecting the owner and standing still, his attention was still on the 'whatever' at times but there was no whacking to ask him to step back.

    Linda needed to connect with the horse on his blind side for obvious reasons if she was being railroaded. She constantly tried to stay on his good side but sometimes he just didnt allow her too. So if he cannot SEE her on the other side she needed to do something.

    I am not trying to justify or convince anyone on here of the situation and her actions as obviously no minds will be changed but i thought i would shed a little more light. I think given the circumstances besides letting the horse go there wasnt much else she could do. At no time during the session did i see Linda get emotional or frustrated. I have seen MANY demos by this woman and if she appears emotional to you she is exaggerating to the onlookers what the horse is feeling, it could be taken the wrong way. She does a big sigh imitating the horse. This is a Level ONE class ie beginners.

    I know this will not change any opinions on here.. but i do think after all the good the Parelli's have done for horses they deserve to be cut a little slack. And if people choose to follow their methods it is their right they should not be shot down in flames. People make mistakes. Did the horse die? Was it injured? Was the owner injured? Did the owner sue the trainer? No. Get over it people!

    If it werent for them a lot of people would be outta horses and missing out on the beauty, grace and love they bring to our lives. I for one of them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2010
  12. Merlin

    Merlin Well-known Member

    All the "good" they have done them ROFLOL, yeah right, maybe you can turn a "blind eye" Faxie but you seem to be in the very small minority here. And NO we won't just get over it#(
     
  13. KINGSBONES

    KINGSBONES Active Member

    I might be little off topic here (not really) though, but i am yet to see any good that has come from parelli training, just about every horse that i have been asked to help has been a 'parelli' horse and i can safely say that these horses are by far the most confused and nervous horses i have come across. Yes it is the owner and handler that have given the horses these issues BUT only from prinipals they were TAUGHT.
     
  14. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Faxie the BIGGEST mistake is that Linda never worked with that horse in a round pen.....given the fact its blind in one eye how in Gods name was she going to get its focus? Hard enough on a fully sighted horse let alone one who doesn't have vision from one side.

    For an international 'trainer' one would assume this important aspect would have been number one on her priorities? If not for the safety of the handler?

    Cutting them slack?.........No sorry, perhaps people should be asking for discounts on training to co-inside with cutting them that "slack".....how much slack 10%, 50%? Or should we ask the horse how much "slack for the whack"? Trainers of that profile should not be making excuses or their devottees asking for 'slack'.....they set themselves up as "experts" and good honest people take them at their word. At their level they cannot afford to make "mistakes"......(different from lack of success here too where some horses learn slower).....their should be no "mistakes" in training.....only levels of success to a common goal.

    Sure the horse didn't need vet assistance and Linda and the owner didn't get carried away in an ambulance.........but the horse sure needed to see a psycologist after it all!!! There is such a thing as "emotional" abuse.....

    Linda failed to understand the horse in the slightest.......and set the poor thing up to fail by failing to provide it with a credible place to "learn" - a round yard.
     
  15. Faxie

    Faxie Well-known Member

    Parelli taught badly ie people making the 7 games the 7 jobs, not reading the horse, pushing them through thresholds, not building confidence, not maintaining dignity, knocking curiosity out i can go on and on and on this does give Parelli a bad name. It is these incidences that people ALWAYS remember. And the horses created from them. NEVER the good stuff is commented on here. Like giving people confidence, skills and technique to simply ride out safely on the trail, or complete complex dressage manuevours naturally without the use of mechanics and drilling with calm, confident and happy horses.

    How many of you have actually seen the whole 18 minute video? I would love to hear exactly what you would do if you were put in the exact same situation?

    You need to be very careful here pointing the finger at helping horses that are trained Parelli and blaming the Parelli program for their issues. Who have the owners been trained by? Was it an approved by Parelli instructor? There is only one in WA. Anyone else does not have the training or information from the source. Anyone choosing a trainer hopefully would want the latest information and training from the best and ask who trains them? Afterall horsemanship is a never ending learning journey and if my instructor doesnt have a mentor there is something missing here. But again thats getting off track.

    Personally i wouldnt have wanted to be trapped in a roundyard with that horse. Rightbrained horses need space. That horse albeit one eyed could see her just fine and horses adapt. He had been without that eye for a long time. Thats not an excuse. Linda did make allowances for it if you care to see the whole video. Again have you seen the whole 18min video? There were BIG changes in that horse. Maybe people just cannot read horses i dont know. The owner states that in his letter - did he have to write that letter of support? no he choose too. Its his opinion that matters.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
  16. Kiwigirl

    Kiwigirl Well-known Member

    And where would we go to see this 18min video?????
     
  17. KINGSBONES

    KINGSBONES Active Member

    Faxie if you can, would you mind posting a link to the full vid would be interesting veiwing.
     
  18. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Faxie I wouldn't have expected any other answer from you.....lolol
    You've been trained very well.....
    I fail to see how a "teacher" who is all the things you mentioned CAN actually leave any good behind.......thats a bit like saying "bushfires are good because despite the animals and property it kills and destroys it all comes back green again!!

    In this instance the end is definately not justified by the means.

    The fact that Linda thought it a good PR exercise to 'respond' to the video sure shows that she RE-THOUGHT the issue....then of course if she thought she did a splendid job then no comment would have been necessary?
     
  19. FDPH

    FDPH Guest

    Faxie I agree with EVP it should have been set up in a round pen and that horse wasn't dangerous just spoilt!! If the round pen is large enough the horse will not feel trapped.... I too have spent a fair bit of time with Mr Hunt and his disciples. I am well aware of the Parelli system, you either love em or hate em. Sometimes I do think they are hammered unnessarily however in this instance I only saw minor changes in this horse and a lot eye palming and jaw clunking. You've also got to realise that a lot of people don't understand Dorrances's horsemanship and Parelli although a good hand himself has actually to adegree made a mockery of what Dorrance/Hunt have done for THE HORSE!! hence why he was refused to be allowed to ride at the Hunt memorial clinic. Parelli has set up a system for people that NEED A METHOD!! At the end of the day you will not change peoples minds remember it has to be the horses idea exactly the same with any animal(human as well!).
     
  20. Faxie

    Faxie Well-known Member

    How could she not respond? This is a threat to her reputation on unsubstantiated grounds. Geez i bet we could dig up and create dirt on EVERY instructor or trainer out there if we tried hard enough LOL!

    Google to see if you can download the whole video, i dont know i have the DVD and even if i knew how to load it up whats the point this discussion will continue to go nowhere, i aint wasting any more time, catch yas. Will have to agree to disagree and go on our merry ways *#)
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
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