wiggle wiggle WHACK!!

Discussion in 'Training Horses' started by IbanezGirl, Mar 6, 2010.

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  1. Cornflower

    Cornflower Well-known Member

    That horse should never have been put in that situation to start with!

    In that statement (bunch of excuses) she gave, she said it was windy that day and the horse was anxious and nervous and that he's just come to the property.

    Well for crying out loud, obviously he's going to have a hard time!? How stupid do you have to be to think otherwise!
    You don't just go and stick a nervous, sight impared, excited horse in the middle of a huge field (paddock, whatever it was), and expect it be perfect!

    The whole thing just drives me up the wall.

    That horse should have been allowed to settle for a few days.
    Then it needs to join up with you before you do any work with it. It's first outing should have been to the roung yard or a small paddock.

    Once the horse is with you, only then should it be taken out for it's first test. And that should only be a small test.
    Only once a horse is comfortable, relaxed and happy in a safe, controlled and quiet environment can you ask or expect it to be the same in a not-so-controlled one.

    Someone mentioned that this horse had prior problem before coming to Linda, like that's some sort of excuse for her appauling behaviour. No, that's more of a reason to take your time! And in fact, makes it worse that she put this horse in this situation.

    A horse that is scared, nervous or excited will never learn anything. And that poor horse was all those things. Very scared and very confused.
  2. Pockets

    Pockets Gold Member

    Yeah it is-I don't have to go to phase 4 often but when I do its hard! Its wake up and bloody well pay attention to ME!! Ever watched the dominent mare in the herd? Hard and fast and boy do the others listen-horses damage each other alot more than I ever could with my brass clip!
    PMSL@Lin phase 23 is classic but THATS why it so important that your phase 4 is effective!! I'm not a Parelli fanatic either-I use a bit of everything including..... dare I say it..........HOBBLES!!!!!!
  3. TB4Me

    TB4Me Well-known Member

    Horses don't discipline each other by any sort of attack on the head. They will kick and bite on softer areas like the stomach and butt, where it stings enough to make a point but doesn't cause serious injury.
    A wild horse with a head or eye injury is a dead horse - they are prey animals after all. This video in no way simulates a horse disciplining another horse, it just shows a very untalented trainer failing to get anywhere with a difficult horse.
  4. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    if someone was hitting their horse under the jaw with a whip i be you wouldnt agree with it, and yet a whip isnt made of metal!
    [​IMG] OUCH!

    And that area is SENSITIVE, otherwise why else would we put curb chains there?
  5. Anna E

    Anna E Guest

    I've watched the whole level 1 DVD and from what I remember at the end the horse was better - but far from ideal. She got him to stand still, but the head was still VERY high and the horse was clearly looking elsewhere. I didn't get the impression from that DVD that he was in any way ready to be handed back to his owner (which is what happened) or that he was a "better" horse at the end than at the beginning. She was happy that she had got him to keep his feet in one place and stop him barging over them - and yes that is a good thing. But she had NOT gotten the respect of that horse, nor was he listening to her. It went no further than "I think what she wants i for me to stay still os something bad will happen. But I'm not going to listen to her cos I'm still too worried about that over there". I can't post video to the web but if anyone wants to watch the whole thing I'm happy to send them my DVD - funnily enough I don't refer to it much any more. ;)
    I just think she let her ego get in the way. If she had truly had the interests of the horse and it's owner in mind, and she had truly been putting safety first (a Parelli gospel) she would have taken that horse away from all the others (there were rope twirling level 1 novices all over the area) and put him in a round yard or somewhere more conducive to what she was trying to acheive.
  6. Faxie

    Faxie Well-known Member

    I've never once said that Linda is 100% right in what she did. I am just trying to put across a point of view. Not justifying her actions.

    Admittedly if it was me in her boots i would have quit for the day on a smaller try and much earlier. There was obviously too much environmental influence for the horse to focus. Be it wind and the draw to the herd, let alone the lack of one eye! But she chose not too and had to follow through until she had what she thought was a change big enough to quit on. We all know no matter what instructor or course or mentor we have to quit on a good note.

    Whether people agree or not its their perogative. I dont go into other training threads and bash because they are not doing NH, this forum is for support. And for telling stories and experiences of what worked or didnt work for you and your horse. Well at least thats what i thought it was for anyway.

    A whip can offer a stinging blow and welts dont you worry.. OUCH

    And yes if you have an effective phase 4 you will rarely have to go there.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
  7. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    LP's "phase 4" is evidently not effective as she spent most of the clip there! Unless it is "phase 3" what is bashing a hrose with the clip?
  8. SassyTiff

    SassyTiff Guest

    I watched it twice and just ended up more confused. All I see if her waving the rope around, annoying and confusing the horse. I have no idea what she is trying to achieve.
  9. GeeJay

    GeeJay Guest

    I don't want to be rude but horses very rarely damage each other, it is normally bluff, it looks scary more often than not contact isn't made it is in a horses best interest to move out of the way quickly, I think the only times I have seen horses injure each other is in a small confined area with know were to go.

    We never have clips on our rope halters the rope just gets attached to the loop, I have had a horse swing round and hit me in the side of the head with a heavy clip and it nearly knocked me out and ended up with a lump the size of an egg hell it hurt.

  10. Faxie

    Faxie Well-known Member

    I agree GeeJay, it only seems to be when horses are cornered that they get badly hurt, mostly its just bark if they have the room to get away. YOUCH re the clip whacking you in the head!

    Just wondering what do you do for tying up? I rarely tie as have had a couple of bad experiences so now i must admit i tend to avoid it LOL! or tie to twine even though i have clips on my ropes with rope halters. Even if a horse is trained to tie well, they can still get a fright and that flight instinct kicks in. (thats whats happened in my case/s). I also dont tie in the float but i guess this is really a subject for a whole other thread.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2010
  11. Pockets

    Pockets Gold Member

    I wasn't really meaning badly hurt, but all mine have chunks off them from the bossy boots mare(and on the heads/cheeks too-if they don't move she doesn't care where she gets them!) I've never taken skin off with the clip.
  12. GeeJay

    GeeJay Guest

    Tie them up really but use a tie line with swivels if we are away, if we are bush working we tie the horses to a tree while we have lunch or whatever, don't use twine at all as it just creates the problem you are trying to avoid. But we always carry a pocket knife if by any chance they get hung up its easier to fix a halter or lead rope than it is to stop a horse pulling back.

  13. FDPH

    FDPH Guest

    So why use a curb chain!!! I'm confused, bad to clip horse under jaw with metal clip but OK to use curb chain is that what I'm reading, if not I do apologise but if I am right then WTF!!
  14. Merlin

    Merlin Well-known Member

    Curb chains are harmless if used with a chain guard, are not too tight and are in experienced hands**)
  15. Arnie

    Arnie Gold Member

    Was waiting how long someone would come in and do a "Yeh but you use...."

  16. FDPH

    FDPH Guest

    Well your wait is over Arnie!! Curb chains aren't harmless in the wrong hands though especially when they are used to pull horses up! I'm not a Parelli fan and I don't like the clips either, they can break when horses pull back equalling broken necked horses and they shouldn't be used as a means of torture!! Just trying to make the point that there are so many things that are done to animals that are wrong probably what the Parelli's do is the lesser of many evils!!
  17. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Seems Linda has to release a number of 'statements' AFTER the fact.....or after she gets caught out doing something that contradicts their 'advertised' high standards. One wonders how many more times she will have to come out and back pedal.

    The video showed a very flustered and tired handler who continued to use that frustration to attempt "training".......did she consider that the horse might have known she was using this 'very easy to recognise' and contra type emotion and that its very un-nerving for the horse?


    Now any other person would have walked the horse over to the tree rather than expecting the horse to know it was supposed to go over there.....lolol

    She never once SET that horse up for it to succeed.

    And people pay for the priviledge?

    I suggest a barn hand use that head gear on Linda while she was blindfolded, out in the open, with a saddle on and the distraction of Pat alongside her....then she might display some empathy for the horse and SHE might just learn a thing or two about setting training exercises up for success.

    Linda might do better in one of those kitchen cooking DVD's where her "skills" of whisking and whacking would be an advantage!
  18. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    Pure GOLD lol
  19. Tam

    Tam Well-known Member

    This is so similar to the debate that exists in the dog training industry when it comes to tools- a tool gets used badly or has the potential to be used badly and so it is labelled as inappropriate to use.

    Hard hands can hurt a horse with the softest bits, hackamore or halter. You can use a severe bit softly, use a metal clip on a lead without belting the horse with it and use a whip without beating the horse up. The issues relate to feel, timing, co ordination etc- NOT the piece of equipment on the horse!
  20. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    Tam AMEN thats exactly how I see it, the halter/lead/stick/Whip are all tools, what was lacking was timing feel and empathy.

    The right hands could ride a horse with razor wire for a bit and not leave a mark, wrong hands will make a horses mouth bruised and battered with a plain snaffle.

    Personally I find the carrot stick to heavy and cumbersome to use, so I use a German Dressage training whip, long, light, and can be used for reward or encouragement when needed.

    no loose bits of string on the end to fly about whiping horses in the eye either.
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