Why own a horse that is difficult to ride?

Discussion in 'Horse Riding' started by EVP, Oct 27, 2012.

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  1. fishiz3434

    fishiz3434 Active Member

    My first horse was one of those horse's and i could't bare to sell it on after it had been to too many homes and neglected and She was also too sweet at times to put down. After two years of work she became the best horse i could have asked for and would never sell her. She dies last year of old age.

    I don't think it is fair to say people should not even bother with a horse that can't be ridden or is naughty or difficult because a lot of horses have just had terrible owners and need time and patience.

    I was bucked, kicked and bitten but she was just doing what she had needed to do to survive other owners, once I worked with her she was amazing and I learnt SOOO much from her and she gave me so much confidence. I never accepted the behaviour as OK but i knew not to blame her and i channelled her thoughts to happier ones, she went from being uncatchable to running up to anyone, from galloping and no brakes to being ridden at walk,trot and canter with no gear on at all.

    I'm not saying every horse that is troubled is like this but they should be given a chance to show their true colours and not the bad habits or responses they have resorted to.
     
  2. NLEC

    NLEC Well-known Member

    I do have to say it.

    Honestly...I don't think anyone WAS saying people shouldn't 'even bother'..... The point was if it upsets them,if it causes them grief, it makes them dread and hate riding that maybe they should be encouraged to move on? perhaps?

    The people that have posted, I appreciate them, I understand them - and I applaud them :D I have been them many times!

    It is a great thing to achieve success with moving forward through problems with a difficult horse. Its a wonderful thing.

    Bust those who have posted clarifying their love, and appreciation, and personal benefit they receive form their horses....you are a different group ;)

    I have taught many riders in the past that have been in the exact same situation that this OP in this thread refers to - and I'm bloody glad they did move on, out of their specific individual situation of fear and regret, and frustration which was holding them back, as, if they hadn't - they would not be 1*, 2* and 3* interstate eventers to this day, race trainers, or those who have immersed themselves in the equine industry and are thoroughly shining in it, or happily as 'pigs in mud' pleasure riders.

    Nope - no horn tooting, or self professions of excellence.

    But I do know, that I stood by them, and supported and encouraged them in finding a more suited mount for them at the time, or to move on in a way that they once again found passion and enjoyment in the sport. I would do it again if it was appropriate.

    I don't believe that the thread has been referring to those that love, enjoy, thrive or devote their time in bettering their complex, or difficult, or even dangerous horses, and their own relationship with in riding. I just wanted to clarify that point of the thread, as I feel it IS the point of the thread - and it seems to be getting muddled a bit ;)

    Flame me if you will - but I believe those that enjoy working with horses through many area's of training are very different to those who do not enjoy it specifically at one time, with one horse, or at one point in their career that may result in them being held back from which they really do love.

    Hindsight is an awesome thing.....but at the time - you can sometimes take a different route home that will not get you dragged through a storm on the way....
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  3. Trojane

    Trojane Well-known Member

    While these types exist, the people in my example are not like this. If anything they are humble about their abilities.
    They are medium-level experienced riders who were over-horsed - bedazzled by difficult, but beautiful horses.
    They struggled along, urged not to give up by well-meaning friends and other horse people who didn't have to wear the bruises.
    But the injuries mounted up. Eventually they sold their gorgeous creatures in self-preservation.

    Next time they each bought well educated, quieter, sweet natured horses - one a QH, the other a Connemara,
    both have been wonderful horses - giving many years of happy riding.
     
  4. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    Trojane my dear friend,
    it was your friend who was bedazzled, and it was your friends choice to give it a go, nothing wrong with that, sometimes it works and some times it does not. she was just not ready for a horse like that, and then she found one more appropriate for what SHE NEEDED.
    if you read my post carefully, i am not saying that every horse a person chooses is the right horse. how many people have only had ONE horse in there life ??? no one i know of, they sell them on because they are not the right horse for them, it was too much horse for them, their circumstances changes, their goals change, what ever, who really cares what the reason is the PERSON wishes to sell or move on? NO ONE, it is NO ONE else's business why someone else needs to move a horse on,
    BUT
    dont label the horse dangerous or difficult because you did not have the skills YOU THOUGHT YOU HAD WHEN YOU BOUGHT IT !!!!
    Just say, "i dont have the skills needed to handle that horse"
    there is NOTHING wrong with that at all.
    HORSES DONT HAVE EGO'S !!!!
    some people just dont want that sort of horse in their life, which is fine, and others want to learn more, and others LOVE THIS TYPE OF HORSE.

    good lord, i can guarantee that EVERYONE has tried to talk a friend into selling their horse at some point in time, so what, it does not mean the horse is DANGEROUS, It just means that the friend is not ready for a horse like that.

    I just dont get it why the horse keeps getting labeled "dangerous or difficult" just because the person who BOUGHT IT did not have the skills NEEDED for that particular horse.

    what one person find difficult to handle another will find a breeze, so how can the horse be labeled dangerous or difficult ????

    it is SIMPLY, NOT THE RIGHT HORSE FOR THAT PERSON, nothing more or nothing less.
     
  5. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    It can be labelled "dangerous, difficult" because the horse has been given every opportunity to show it can be something different, but it doesn't.

    Because some horses will never be the kind of horses that the majority of horsepeople want or need.
     
  6. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    As I have already posted earlier the inherently dangerous horse is a rare thing, most "dangerous" horses are man made. Dangerous horses are created by poor handling from humans....they just are, ask any professional horse person :)

    I have 3 horses and all 3 I bought for hardly anything because they were all described as everything ranging from "wild" to "mad". One apparently could not be lead through a gate but it goes happily through gates for me everyday! They are all super horses talented horses beautiful normal horses. Any horse can be an unsuitable horse for someone!

    To save this debate, I think it might be best to stop discussing "dangerous" horses and talk about "unsuitable" horses :). The most common unsuitable horse is the young horse! It is working with the young horse that commonly gets people undone as they normally go through many stages of trying out different "answers" to what you are asking....it is normal for this to happen but can unsettle people if they don't know what is happening.

    Finally, horse riding is a dangerous sport. No horse is 100% bomb proof, all horses have there moments! By learning about how horses work and how they learn and how their brain works can keep you safer and MAKE it more enjoyable. The right horse for a person is the horse that matches their skill and confidence level. Skill and confidence = horse handling competence, the more competent you are the greater scope you have to handling a wider variety of horses from untouched feral horses to human mangled horses.
     
  7. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    LIKE LIKE LIKE, :))
    I AGREE 20000000%
    beautifully written RR :)*
     
  8. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    I should also add that sometimes it is the athleticism of a horse that can make a horse unsuitable for someone. From experience I can tell you that a spook by a short backed, flamboyant young warmblood exerts a lot more g-force on your seat than a short legged, long backed fat pony! Therefore sometimes the sheer athleticism of a horse can unnerve a lot of people!
     
  9. sambo

    sambo Well-known Member

    So the horse is to be sold on. Can i ask to whom? Is the horse dangerous or just needs a different rider? If the horse is "Dangerous" wouldn't the right thing to do would be to PTS?
     
  10. Deb2

    Deb2 Guest

    RR - love your post and 100% agree.

    With this thread, I would even go a step further and say that rather than people blaming the horse and saying it is unsuitable, dangerous, difficult etc etc, perhaps they could look a little deeper and realise that it is themselves that are not up to scratch for that particular horse.

    So often you hear phrases like 'that person is over horsed', but perhaps the horse, who has no choice in who buys it, is the one that is under personed.';'

    The horse has no choice in who it gets bought by, who it gets sent to, how it gets handled or mis-handled.

    The people around it and associated with it make all these choices for it, therefore, surely the 'blame' if there is going to be blame dished out, should lie with the people who get to make all the choices.

    I feel very sorry for horses who are under-peopled and thus end up with a label.

    Perhaps a more appropriate title for this thread would then be "Why do riders persist with a horse that they dont have the skills for?"...that way, it takes the blame off the horse and puts it back on those that get to actually make the choices.
     
  11. Deb2

    Deb2 Guest

    ....Or perhaps it has not met the right trainer yet?
     
  12. Trojane

    Trojane Well-known Member

    Smash, you put a great argument and I agree with all in your post except the line above.

    You see what I found, it was often because of friends talking them into keeping their horses - aptly rebadged "unsuitable" by RR - that the owners continued.
    They kept trying new things to improve the relationship, but ultimately lacked the ability/confidence/stamina to manage.
     
  13. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    I don't disagree that some people will become better riders than others. Just as I agree that some horses have the potential to be better ridden horses with say a professional trainer.

    But I don't believe that all horses are born with the same ability and potential to become the perfect ridden horse for that 99% of recreational riders.

    Because, to say that, would mean that all horses are born like robots who can be programmed.....as a breeder I know this is NOT correct.

    Horses aren't just the total sum of their handling, training and environment.
    Some horses do not possess the aptitude to recall what they have been shown. And more important to this thread is, that some horses don't possess the submissiveness required to take on the roll of 'student'. They turn requests into avoidence, asks into defiance, and turn training into refusals.

    No recall (either occassionally or permanently) cannot be influenced by Jesus himself. There are dumb horses, and there are horses who, to their own detriment, are purely the product of their genes. Whatever ability they have cannot be channelled or transferred into willingness and acceptance. No matter how good the trainer. They make their own trouble.

    These are the horses that I am talking about. The difficult ones that then become dangerous, because the barriers they create make them candidates for disaster. Horses who are either too dumb, or who prefer to fight are horses who have no concern for their own safety, and care even less about their rider.

    Horses aren't all equally capable. But ALL horses end up in the hands of potential riders.

    *Adding* BREEDING horses with this "capability" as a goal means I can add environment and training to achieve an end result as good as anyone can get it. What, where and who comes after that is anyones guess!.....lolol.
     
  14. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    The next best would be Jesus. I don't think he gives lessons.
     
  15. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    Code:
    
    
    Deb actually makes a good point here because not everyone that puts themself out there as a horse trainer is a competent horse trainer! ;)
     
  16. Excelsior Centerpiece

    Excelsior Centerpiece Well-known Member

    Jesus wears sandals... not really safety appropriate to be around horses.. *#)
     
  17. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    Did you watch my Buck YouTube clip?

    Horses are far from robots but they are actually predictable in their behaviour and yes some more reactive than others!

    A horse has to be suitable for the person! It is all about that good quote, horses for courses and people for horses!

    Some horses are suitable for some people and some are not ;). It doesn't mean the horse is inherently dangerous, just unsuitable!

    Your debate is centered on what should a person do if they find themselves with a unsuitable horse? Well they should be sensible and deal with the situation and that maybe to seek help or move the horse on and find something more suitable :).

    But that leads us to the next discussion which is: why can a horse be unsuitable? It certainly doesn't mean the person is crap or hopeless, it might mean they are sensible! If you don't get time to ride much the last thing you need is a young horse that needs a lot of work! Or you might not be the most bold rider in the world, therefore the flamboyant warmblood might not be your thing! Etc

    A horse has to match your skill, confidence, fitness and lifestyle plus many more things! Therefore there are a lot of variants! Saying a horse is unsuitable is no slur against a person, because there are a number of moons that have to align to match horse and rider!
     
  18. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    babe, naturally friends will try to help friends, it is what friends do :)
    SOMETIMES when a horse has given someone a fright, it is just the way a rider will freeze when they feel the horse tense, they freeze and then to poor rider is in for another fright. SOMETIMES you can help a friend find another way to respond to the horse tensing and there is a break through for both horse and rider, SOMETIMES you can not help your friend from changing their response. At the end of the day, no one is holding a gun to any ones head to keep or sell the horse, it will always be the owners choice.

    Friends will always try to HELP and SUPPORT their friend AS BEST AS THEY can, weather they are right or wrong does not matter, as the friend would never want to see their friend get hurt under any circumstances.

    Only the owner can actually make the choice that is best for them, and at the end of the day, a friends input is ONLY an OPINION not the law :)

    anyway trojane, i am so happy that your friends have found the perfect horses for themselves, i am sure they are both enjoying their new partners and are having an absolute ball :)
     
  19. Deb2

    Deb2 Guest

    Just for fun...

    A person, their skill, confidence, fitness and lifestyle and many more things, has to match the horses temperment, nature and past handling. Therefore, there are a lot of variants. Saying a person is unsuitable is not slur against the horse, because there are a number of moons that have to align to match rider and horse.:D
     
  20. Troppo

    Troppo Well-known Member

    LOL YES! When I bought my roping horse he was more horse than I have ever owned before. I have ridden many 'big' horses....warmbloods, TB's etc, but I have never consistently ridden anything as athletic as him. When I bought him he was in full work, he is solidly built and was fit, trained exceptionally and ridden for speed.

    He is not dangerous, but he overwhelmed me a lot at first. I spent many hours at one of my trainers place learning not to keep off his mouth cos I wanted him to slow down LOL and basically learning to ride him, and I thought I could ride really well. He gets hot and I had to learn to utilise that energy into something positive rather than hang on his mouth for safety, and bottle up his energy until I created something scary! And I am still holding him back too much on a barrel course because I think I am a little scared to unleash the beast LOL.

    It has taken me 12 months to learn to ride him to get the best out of him. He is trained for roping at a much higher level than me, and I am learning how to train him on barrel properly. And I am still finding more gears, and more tweaks which add to his performance!
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
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