why do ppl dislike standardbreds so much?

Discussion in 'Horse Riding' started by jlnew, Apr 7, 2010.

  1. Gaia

    Gaia Gold Member

    I never mentioned "post legged??" Did I? :confused: All I am saying is a conformationally correct horse is a stronger horse than a horse with diviations in ANY disapline. I am not going to argue the point on which is a better race horse or which is a better show horse. I am responding to Montygirls post on the fact that she thinks the SB's winning in breed shows look nothing like a SB? Why does that bother you Montygirl? You dont have a SB, you dont even breed show?? I bet if I posted pics for you EVP, you would pick everyone as a SB! The SOE is Australia wide. Don't ask me where is originated from, cause I dont know and I dont care.

    This thread has gone WAY off track and is just resorting to cheap shots and underlying digs at ppl which are quite obvious to read (except for Heifer who got pretty much torn up outright!). You (EVP) just happen to end up in the middle of these threads because of your knowledge and passion of the breed as a race horse. If I didn't have so much respect for this forum, I would quote everyone here that had a snide dig, and then relay it the way you meant it so you could get it off your chest, but maybe you should just be brave enough to do that for yourselves! I have had pretty much a gutful of you less than honest ppl.

    I usually don't enter these stupid and meaningless SB threads because I simply don't give a crap about what ppl think of my horse just because he is a certain breed, but regretfully I allowed myself to be dragged into this one.

    All I can say is GET OVER IT PPL! If you love your horse don't worry about what anyone else thinks! Go prove them wrong with actions rather than bloody meaningless words.

    I vote that anymore SB threads get deleted before they get started :));) Give us all something else to read!

    I have ETA - we have had race trainers judge SB in the show ring before and the horses that come through are still consistent with the ones that the show horse judges pick? Go figure.

    Great post KP
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2010
  2. kp

    kp Well-known Member

    Not so sure if I entirely agree with EVP (although I understand where you are coming from), but I will put my own spin on things. These are my observations being part of a large harness racing stable and my work with rehabilitation of leg injuries.

    Feet are the most important part of keeping a horse sound. That is a horse with adequate sized feet for body size, and hoof pastern axis. There some conformation faults that are seen as a not so bad thing in standardbreds for racing. One is cow hocks versus bowed out behind. I will take this even further and say a horse that tracks either straight or wide behind are a lot easier to get going. Horses that travel narrow behind, cross fire badly. They are hard to gait as they constantly hit there front legs, this also causes injuries. Horses that twist outwards with there hocks when they move are VERY hard to keep sound in there hocks.

    A straight back helps them keep it rigid. A rigid back helps them pace or trot better. The reason why suppling exercises are so important when re-training a standardbred.

    Each to there own with front leg conformation. I am happy to take on a pigeon toed horse (slight not severe). Will NOT take on a horse that toes out. Again VERY hard to gait as they usually interfere with the opposite front leg. Most trainers don't shy away from mild splints and mild off set cannons or knees. And again I say slight not severe. A horse with overly long pasterns (weather they be upright or slopey) and short slopey pasterns are also a no go. Interestingly enough plaiting when walking isn't really problem in my experience.

    Most trainers don't like overly fine horses. They need to have a bit of bone. I have come across very few trainers that worry about slope of shoulder etc. But most trainers want a horse with good length hip with a nice slope. Certainly not set high in the tail.

    I would say that EVP could right a rather lengthy essay on the conformation of standardbreds for racing. Something that fascinates me greatly. I do hope that this thread is helping more people understand the breed better. So far I think it has been rather constructive.

    I do understand that some people will never like them or own one themself, I would just like to think that people will appreciate them for what they are.
  3. type it in google, i cant really decribe it but to me a rack is a gait that the american saddlebred is bred for where as the pace is a different movement all together
  4. CoUrTzZ_94

    CoUrTzZ_94 Guest

    awesome thanks =] im just intersted as my boy was a trotter not a pacer...:eek:
  5. I think that it is fine to have your own opinion (either to like or dislike stbs), just keep the negative ones to yourself! It is really dishearting to be constanly bashed down about owning a stb, it is also hard to just ignore it, no matter how much you love your horse! That is probably the reason most people don't go back to stbs (well people like me who wear their hearts on their sleeves) - the whispers, the snares, the snobs, the remarks

    So how about some positive attitudes and less judging :)*
  6. Sorrel

    Sorrel Well-known Member

    I am with Gaia on this one.

    Very tiring to have to defend the breed all the time when people that comment negatively have no clue on breed standards for racing or showing. #(

    I think show results speak for themselves even in breed rings where standardbreds are winning Supreme of Supremes.

    Hope Mods close this one.
  7. CoUrTzZ_94

    CoUrTzZ_94 Guest

    i kno the feeling the funny looks u get when u go out like omg have they neva seen a stb before?? i love zeus with all my heart and would change him for the world! i think standys are by far the best breed for beginers once being educated from the track. there so loving and quite
  8. kp

    kp Well-known Member

    I have competed on standardbreds a lot. I also take them to my level 2 NCAS dressage coach. She has never used it is a standardbred as an excuse for incorrect work nor bagged out my horses, Has always complemented what was good about that particular horse. I have heard snide remarks made on sidelines and have had them made to my face. But if your horse looks good and works good not to many people will knock the horse. It does not matter what breed of horse you own there will be someone who won't like it for its breed. If you don't want to deal with a breed bias get your horse working as well as you and the horse can, these people then sit up and take notice(especially if you beat them!!!!!) People simply don't like a breed of horse because they don't understand them or have no particular use for that breed of horse. Each to there own really.
  9. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    we can always start a Q/H halter thread LOL
    not sure what some of them have been breed for?
    standing still maybe??
    (all said with tongue and cheek naturally)

    this WHOLE thread could be hashed out like this for ANYBREED.
    not just the standardbreds.

    there is good and bad in every breed, as perfection has not been found in anybreed yet, so naturally people are always going to try.

    as for breeding standies for the show ring, i say "hell yes go for it" might help take the stigma out of it for those that keep bashing them for being bred to harness.
    but you do know that once you start breeding standies for the show ring, and they start to perform better then ever, you are going to get remarks like "yeah, but it is not a real standardbred"
    aahhh sometimes you just can never satisfy those hecklers LOL
  10. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Thank you KP......I think it terribly funny to rock up to the races and watch some horses race (and win) who would normally be called poor examples of a well conformed horse.......and horses who stay sound and race week in and week out with an obvious 'deviation' from what is "text book correct". The intricate balance between good breeding selection, raising babies and training is something that facinates me and strangely enough our trainers in 2 completely different horse sports actually train very very similiar! One with the pacers and the other with the drafters/cow horses. Training regime influences performance and longevity so much that I personally consider it equally important to the science of gene selection (chosing a sire ect).

    Some horses will out perform their conformational deviations repeatedly!! They overcome their body issues and rise when by all accounts they shouldn't!
    The typical QH shouldn't be cow hocked either, but try reining or cutting on a more post legged beauty queen from the halter ring.....!
  11. i never actually took my stb out to compete ridden, just to breed shows, which we did win! definatley each to there own! to be honest i havent seen any threads that debate like the stb ones, maybe i just dont get out much?
  12. Gaia

    Gaia Gold Member

    BAHAHAHAHA, I've already had that one!! Funny thing is that the little turd took his first steps and bloody well paced everywhere! If he takes a sharp corner in the paddock and unbalances himself, he flat out paces for a hundred meters lol
  13. CoUrTzZ_94

    CoUrTzZ_94 Guest

    hijacking this thred for a moment lol

    i dont kno weather to keep up the education with my boy for showing or use him as my bush horse?? any help would be great!

    thanks =]**)
  14. celestialdancer

    celestialdancer Gold Member

    Not going to lie,
    there are a LOT of things wrong with many a horse out there.
    Mine included.
    Rahni's hocks sit too far underneath him, he has a roached back, he loves to grind his teeth, and his feet are my farriers worst nightmare.
    The STB I used to ride was EXACTLY what I wanted him for. A confidence builder. He competed with me at D grade ODE's. If I worked on his fitness level, we would easily have been able to re-ecstablish his canter, and then he would be able to throw a bloody nice dresage test.
    His trot is to die for.
    There are many good and bad aspects about every breed, and every horse. It just depends on what the horse is wanted for, and to what level.
    I'm still in awe of Heifer who took Buckley to the level of dressage she did. Not because I didn't think she'd be able to manage it, but because she took all the flack, and still bloody did it!
    Each to their own, you put in the work, and the results will show.
  15. Gaia

    Gaia Gold Member

    Courtzz, it depends what you want and what you are prepared to put in. Looks mean jack crap (well nearly lol) You need to be prepared for the long haul with a SB. It wont come easy and it wont come simple. You need a damn good coach and a damn good understanding of why the do what they do and how to correct it. I watched your boy at the last show and he is very typical of a OTTSB, extremely unbalanced, so you have to work out if you have the time, the patience, the help (and money to go with that) and the skill to retrain him. :)

  16. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Smash breed origins and identities are in every breed........dogs especially.

    There is also a thing called "breed intent". Where the actual breed intention is, or should be, a controlling focus. A Kelpie isn't a dog that belongs in a penthouse, either is a Border Collie, and a miniture poodle isn't a breed that belongs in a sheep yard.........its all about breed identity and their intended historical use. As human "interferrers" we do what we want with animals because we can......if someone wants a Kelpie and they live in a unit block they still go and get one.....because they can. I've seen people with those huge French slobery things in small 500sq backyards!! Like has anyone noticed how big the poop-poops of these beasts are????????? Cute pups, huge handfuls and some animals are not suited to some owners....horses too....some people shouldn't own Arabs.......some people shouldn't own standardbreds. Horses or dogs sometimes fall outside the capabilities of the majority of would-be owners..........regardless of whether being human means they can buy one.
  17. i also found that trot poles are brilliant for balancing with my boy, make sure you do both sides evenly of course :) but also like gaia said definatley need an instructor that knows alot about stb's to help you. I was also told recently that jumping helps improve balance by my dressage instructor! **)
  18. CoUrTzZ_94

    CoUrTzZ_94 Guest

    we have been working on his balance lots on lunging with side reins etc..i really just want to breed shows although we didnt do very good.. we have been putting in so much hard work but i just dont think its gonna happen he is now 14 so ive given him a break of just trail rides and non-scholling for a few weeks to let him think about what he has learnt. Thanks for your advice x

  19. painter

    painter Well-known Member

    Do what you want to do with your horse, don't let other peoples opinions affect yours. Even if you don't continue to show him, at least keep his basic education up to a decent standard (as in don't allow him to become a bush-bashing hoon), it will make a difference to the type of home he goes to if you ever have to re-home him in the future.
  20. Pockets

    Pockets Gold Member

    Wow love these threads-haven't had a standy since my first horse who was a beautiful true black and the sweetest thing ever while we had him(long, sad story:( ) but certainly wouldn't rule out another one just because it was a standy. I think its sad that some people are so biased against a particular breed that they can't see any good, anywhere within that breed. At the end of the day a horse is a horse.

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