Why do people hate Parelli?

Discussion in 'Training Horses' started by Tam, Sep 15, 2003.

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  1. blitzen

    blitzen Gold Member

    what the? i call people like that "jonah's" because everything's negative. ugh.

    it's just jealousy really.
     
  2. Pockets

    Pockets Gold Member

    Arggg the treat thing is one of my pet hates!! I like Parelli but I prefer the older stuff-reckon they've lost the plot a bit with some of the new ideas(saddles right back over the kidneys for example!!!)
     
  3. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Lets get the terms straight here...."Parelli" doesn't equate to "Natural"....he doesn't have the monopoly on the word or the ideals behind it. He is merely another western trainer who after learning from others, took it to another level via his marketing guru wife, Linda.

    That he then began to refer to nicer, kinder, more humane, training techniques as "Parelli" really only shows conceit more than anything.

    His methods are like Holden is to Ford. They are all cars. Natural Horsemansip is the generic term given to the training methods that have differed from "the old tie down, beat em up, buck em out" days.

    If people want to get hung up on brand names rather than appreciate the philosophy of "a better deal for horses" then that is their perogative, but to take it to extremes boarders on cultism.
     
  4. Spellbound

    Spellbound New Member

    I am not one to use parelli but i have nothing against it. A friend of mine used Parelli to yet one of my young horses onto a float and it was amazing to watch him listening and understanding what he was being asked. we got some great results that day :)
     
  5. Cadabby

    Cadabby Well-known Member

    I think the reason there's such a divison between the Parelli and Non-Parelli camps is because every horse person tends to think their way is the best way, the be-all and end-all and they won't be changing it any time soon!

    For example, if you tell someone you want to buy a new saddle, chances are they'll tell you how great their saddle is and you should get one just like it. If you ask someone their opinion about a type of feed, again you'll get told that what they feed is best and would be perfect for you.

    Of course, a bad experience with something will cause us to dislike it, and we won't recommend it to others. I have seen so-called "dressage" riders do horrible things to their horses - using spurs until they draw blood, using a whip until it leaves whelts, tying their horses heads down to get them "on the bit" (because you can achieve that with anything BUT hard work! *insert sarcastic tone here*) etc. It doesn't mean I'm going to be turned off dressage. What ruins any type of training programme, or sport, or any other experience to do with these beautiful creatures is ignorant people who don't care about their horse's well-being, just the results they get.

    I would much rather have a horse who wanted to be with me and that I enjoyed being around. If any training method gave me this, I'd become an instant convert. But I wouldn't start preaching to everyone about my breakthrough. I think I'd just keep it to myself and keep my neck off the chopping block. :eek:
     
  6. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    I just love it that every new forum member enters with posts that have always been "hot topics"........lolol

    And that goes for every section........yep nothing like throwing your hat in the ring, and then climbing in with the tigers......ahahahahahaha
     
  7. Kateee

    Kateee Guest

    Personally I love parelli, it has worked wonders for me and my horse. Hoping to do my level one soon. :)
     
  8. F's rav dancer

    F's rav dancer New Member

    Olivia, as i said in my post, I believe that video's dvd's books's etc are ok but nothing compares to HAVING SOMEONE THERE ie eyes on the ground.. personally I would not let someone near either of my horses unless they had prior experience in what they were trying to teach or had some one to help them namely myself... IMHO you only confuse a horse by trying to instill two differing types of training methods into them..
     
  9. ronniesgirl

    ronniesgirl New Member

    I have loved reading this thread. I am a fan of Parelli and Monty Roberts and any other trainer/rider/horse lover who offers advise to create a partnership with me and my horse.

    This topic is like when you first become a parent - you hear advise from every Tom, Dick and Harry as to how you should raise your child. Everyone thinks they know everything. I like to listen to everyone and then make my own decision for what is right for me and my horse. I never dismiss any idea cos one day I may remember and then try it and find it works.

    IMO the day you stop learning and listening is a sad day for both you and your horse.
     
  10. Faxie

    Faxie Well-known Member

    Whats with all these old threads being dredged up???

    Lets get this straight.. natural horsemanship/Parelli/whatever is about YOU not the horse! Horses have people problems not people have horse problems!

    Ok for starters anyone actually following Parelli would know that the levels system has completely changed and there are brand new FULLY UPDATED dvds released late 2009. While some of you might think it is simply more marketing, it is actually called progression and improvement.

    Pat says several times during the new dvds to not turn the 7 Games into the 7 Tortures which is what 98% of people out there do. Hence bored dull unresponsive horses and people that say 'aww that parelli just doesn't work'..

    Horses are yelling at us for us to get some savvy!!! Whether it be by barging through our space or simply shutting down.

    If people are still wriggling their ropes at their horse after starting the program and progressing through Level 1 - (which by the way is just basic ground skills now NO RIDING) they are definately not paying attention and progressing. Get some rope handling savvy people!! EXAGERATE to learn and then refine asap!!

    Please people if you are starting out in the Parelli program specifically bypass all the old parelli stuff and get the current information. Pat & Linda are learning and progressing and passing on to us students all the time so the program never stagnates and people get stuck in ruts which just creates natural horsemanship hell for the horse!

    This is what happened in the past and people just weren't progressing. For instance when i did Level 1 it was back in the days where you had to ride bareback and be able to trailer load confidently. They had to change the goal posts, most people are not confident to ride bareback nor do most people actually want too! Most people out there just want to learn to be safe with their horses. The Levels system is just a way of following a pathway of progression. Its not about awards and certificates, nor about MAKING the horse do something. It is about preserving their dignity and curiosity and improving their confidence.

    If a person is getting angry trailer loading they are not following the Parelli program. Funnily enough trailer loading issues are not actually about the trailer.. but i won't bother getting into that here. People should be emotionally fit before they even go near a horse.

    I know i would prefer to be part of a progressive program in my quest for never ending self improvement when it comes to my horsemanship.

    Well there's my 2 cents worth, I personally don't care what other people do (i just feel sorry for the horses but they are amazingly forgiving creatures), but it annoys me immensely when people do not have the facts straight and bash something they know nothing about.

    I certainly never comment on other methods as I do not know enough about them to quantify a comment. I am certain there are other methods of horse training out there that are just as good, but the Parelli program is just what suits me as a learner. It gives me everything i need, from basic safety on the ground to collected flying lead changes and canter half passes in a bridle to even riding bridleless (just because we can!).

    I may be classed as extreme by choosing to only follow the Parelli program and have done since 1995, having even been and done a course at the ranch in Colorado, but it is a choice and i know it is the best for ME and my horses, all you have to do is ask them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
  11. Faxie

    Faxie Well-known Member

    Hey Pockets, they definately aren't putting saddles back over the kidneys where are you getting that info from? Have you seen the saddling dvd and the current info, i can email that to you if you like, its really interesting.. they have been doing more researching into the shimming etc... thank gawd

    Olivia/Blitzen, Spurs aren't a bad thing if in the right 'hands' so to speak LOL! they are for 'up' refinement, not for forward... so depends on their usage i guess as to why people formed an opinion.

    Olivia, i just reread your post, goodness your people at your stable are obviously not progressing very fast through the Parelli program, level 1 ground skills should only take a week to learn then get on and RIDE! tell them to get some lessons from a parelli instructor and get moving! If they are allowing horses to run around in a right brained manner (ie losing it!) they need to be doing something about interrupting the pattern and not allowing it to get to the point where horses are getting hurt. They need to get some help!
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
  12. Deb2

    Deb2 Guest

    I've only skimmed over some of these posts, so forgive me if this has already been said.

    I think the whole Parelli label can cope a raw deal as a lot of the people turning to 'Parelli' are doing so out of desperation or as a last ditch effort before either having to get rid of the horse or give up horses all together.....So they try Parelli.

    So with lots of green riders and dominant horses, it only stands to reason that there will be a few mishaps along the way.

    If on the other hand Parelli had all experienced and capable riders with their moderately trained horses going to him for 'refinement' then I'm sure the overall picture of success would be higher (than for the first group)

    Also bear in mind that the first group who have some improvements, often run out and try to preach the 'Parelli way', and then you have beginners teaching beginners, which is not the best option.

    So the moral of my story is that if you want to learn the parelli way, then go to a QUALIFIED parelli trainer, and see if its for you.
     
  13. janm

    janm New Member

    Ziggyz, you're so right.. An experienced trainer to help is a must... I was using "Natural Horsemanship" methods before it was called Natural Horsemanship, in those days it was known as Common Sense... I'm on the very far side of middle age... ;)

    But after taking on a ruined (by methods most unkind) two year old quarterhorse I needed a way to get a handle on this very defensively aggressive youngster and was at a loss of a way forward without putting myself in danger.. Luckily, the old saying of "When you are ready to receive the right teacher will appear" happened for me and a wonderful person who is an experienced Parelli trainer came into my life. I am now riding my little mare who actively seeks my company, enjoys her sessions with me and is improving daily.. I'm not saying that only the Parelli method could have got these results, but they certainly worked for me and my mare...as Parelli says all it takes is Love Language and Leadership in equall doses...
     
  14. Faxie

    Faxie Well-known Member

    Completely true Ziggyz & there is only ONE person in WA endorsed and qualified to teach the Parelli program - Louise Atkinson.

    If anyone says they are teaching Parelli well, they might have learned some of it themselves but they will not be up to date with the latest.. All Parelli instructors are required to get constant training and that means travelling to the source.

    Parelli is something i am obviously passionate about but i certainly wouldn't go out and teach it unless i had the training, skill level and endorsement required. It is the people that don't that give Parelli a bad name.
     
  15. Trojane

    Trojane Well-known Member

    Some posts make me wonder why Parelli sells DVDs on "getting started" directly to anyone - inexperienced and newcomers - only clicks away on the computer!

    Should methods so fragile/misunderstood/poorly-applied etc be marketed wantonly?
    Should training direct from a Parelli Endorsed Instructorâ„¢ be obligatory?
    And when DVDs with refreshed methods are produced because some old methods proved inadequate/dangerous...how about a General Recall of faulty stock?

    Or is this covered with a solid disclaimer on each DVD (for entertainment purposes only, do not try at home.. etc)?
     
  16. Siren

    Siren Well-known Member

    nailed it jamm :)
     
  17. shelllouise19

    shelllouise19 Active Member

    same stuff different name...

    If you go and look at the parelli methods they dont really differ from other methods of training. Eg teach a horse to move its hindquarters, shoulders, indervidual feet...All you are doing is asking the horse to move away from pressure!

    The wiggling of the rope to back up? If it is done correctly it is a fantastic way of getting a horse to back up lightly. Everything comes down to your timing and feel.
    If you dont have your timing spot on the horse really doesnt get what you are asking. I have seen some people try to ask a horse to back up this way and it was a disaster! the horse rearing and running backward to get away from the pressure! Parelli uses different levels of pressure...this is how it was described to me: Air...skin...muscle...bone. If the first level doesnt work gradually build up. You MUST give the horse TIME to figure out what you are asking! You have to reward even the slightest try...saying to the horse yes you have the right idea next time go a bit further.

    It frustrates the hell out of me when people bag the idea of horsemanship, be it called Parelli, Monty, Brady, what ever! Do me a favour and actually look at what the methods are and give them a fair go. It not going to work strait away both you and your horse must figure out what each other is doing! If you dont know what/how you are asking something then how the hell is your horse supposed to figure it out too!?
     
  18. Anna E

    Anna E Guest

    Woah Shelllouise19... Steady up neddy.
    I don't think anyone has "bagged" horsemanship or Parelli or anything else here - in fact in comparison to some threads on this very subject this one has stayed very civilised..!
    You're right in that Parelli is all about feel, as are MANY OTHER METHODS. **)We just vary in how we get and apply that feel.
    Personally, rope wriggling to back up leaves me cold - I can get my horse to back up in other ways which are much clearer and simpler for him to understand - he knows how to yield to direct pressure, and so I just apply that to his chest (as does Parelli, in the porcupine game).
    I've never understood, to be honest, the purpose of the yo yo game or the sideways game: they have always seemed to me to be gimmicks which have little to do with getting the job done. I want my horse to move politely out of my space and to shift his arse when I ask him to. I cannot see why I should wave a stick or rope at him to make him do it from 10 feet away - it looks fancy but serves little practical purpose... My boy yields beautifully to pressure, self loads on the float, leg yields under saddle in a bit and a halter, and backs up when asked both on the ground and under saddle. Wave a rope at him and ask him to "play" the yo yo game and he pins his ears and says "bugger off woman where's the point in that" - and I think he's right..;)
    Enough of the ground games to make a horse easy to handle and then let's get out there and hit the trails!
    But I'm NOT "bagging" PArelli any more than I'm "bagging" horsemanship - I just choose to do it differently. Too many Parelli people cannot see the value in "differently".
     
  19. Faxie

    Faxie Well-known Member

    Trojane -The reason the Parelli's endorse instructors to teach their program is only to benefit you the student. You know you are getting the latest information and can be assured your instructor is fully up to date training with the Parellis themselves annually. I know one thing i want to know that my instructor has regular instruction as you can never stop learning.

    Anne E - People shouldnt be using rope wriggling to back up after it is learnt - refine it!! If people are still 'waving' a stick around after they have learnt level 1 they aint progressing!

    The better a horse goes backwards & sideways the better he does everything else.. believe or not sideways on the ground leads to half passes under saddle, just like the yo-yo builds to piaffe after all piaffe is just contained backwards & forwards motion.

    A horse will definately pin its ears & show 'attitude' if it is being drilled with the '7 tortures' or if it is being 'made' to do something as opposed to being 'asked'. And a 'make' doesnt always mean by using mechanical force either.

    I am grateful to the Parellis because when i first saw them at a clinic in 1995 it was a turning point for me in my life. I learnt to see things from the horses point of view for the first time ever. Sad, i know but in all my horselife prior to that i never really thought about what the horse think, i had a 'make' relationship with them, sure i loved them with a passion, but tended to 'make' them do what i wanted when some were clearly screaming at me to get more savvy! So i thank them for that.

    Not only that the skills i have learnt over the years are benefitting me immensely in my new role in life as a mum. I cannot believe how much i can apply to kids, no not so much the porcipine game LOL!- things like mental, emotional (THATS A BIG ONE!!) and physical fitness. Again i thank them for that.

    Not everyone out there wants what the Parellis promote, but i sure know i do and will continue on the journey of never ending self improvement.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2010
  20. Andhi

    Andhi Gold Member

    I had the pleasure of watching a client work with their horse in the arena at liberty today was lovely.

    I only know the basics of NH, and probably do them badly.
    I see it's benefits and it's flaws jsut like any system. But I admit it would be nice to work at liberty with Tally
     
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