Why are there so many green/make a good project/problem horses for sale????

Discussion in 'Problem Horses' started by Go the Distance, May 14, 2012.

  1. Go the Distance

    Go the Distance Well-known Member

    I hardly ever look at horses for sale online because usually horses just seem to rock up when I need them.

    Today I got on our local Albany website and in the horse section there were HEAPS of green, half started, problem or project horses for free or for sale. What the hell is all this about?? Do people just aquire these horses and then it all gets too hard so they can the plan? Some people had quite a few horses for sale at once. What causes this? How did they end up with them all to start with:confused:?

    I found it quite saddening to think that all those horse lives were just in limbo. I am gutted if I have to make the horrible decision to move a horse on or euthanse it. Even my beautiful pally I have leased out I sometimes wake up and wish I could just give him a hug even though I know he is treated like a king where he is:(.

    Do people not feel a sense of lifelong responsibility to these horses? I know some of them just sell one and then go and buy something exactly the same';'.
     
  2. LisaJ

    LisaJ Well-known Member

    Sad isn't it? I can't tell you how many times I have seen comments on social media sites about how much "I just LOVE this horse/pony" and then a few months later the same "much loved" animal is for sale "due to no fault of it's own" or "going to waste in a paddock" Makes me mad!!! I own a slightly ditzy Arab & a cranky 20yr old pony and they will stay with me till their end or if god forbid something happens to me they will be provided for until their end. My OH (non-horsey) reckons that some people collect teapots and others collect horses....... Maybe they are addicted to excitement of a "new" horse and then when that wears off the now "old" horse gets moved on for another "new" horse!
     
  3. nannygoat

    nannygoat Gold Member

    People keep breeding and selling youngstock as they dont want to run them on.

    They sell the cute fluffy foal with all the potential in the world.

    Person buys cause 'cheaper' and 'omg just what they want' and then find that they are not capable of dealing with all the long term training and foibles of a young horse.

    ..or....people 'rescue' horse with noble cause but cannot commit longterm to financial or training programmes. Many think they are upgrading the horse *snort*

    People buy a cheap horse typically OTTT and wow its not the quiet plodder they need.

    Spur of the moment oh must have it now typical modern society with no thought for next week. Or heaven forbid a horses lifetime.

    Most people these days are sadly lacking in basic practical useful horsemanship skills. Wayyy too huggy feely emo crap that makes them feel good but totally useless for the horses welfare.

    Lets face it, most horse problems are simply thier owners.
     
  4. nimetyau

    nimetyau Well-known Member

    Sorry GTD I just had a look and I couldn't find any of that discription as I was concerned too. Maybe it is a different site than you went to. I saw ex-race horses or broodmares looking for new homes. A couple of babies and a few pony club horses. Perhaps you could pm me the site?

    Circumstances can change. I bought a young horse for my daughter to bring on and sell but not long after she got an apprenticeship and doesn't have time to ride anymore. Unfortunately for me the market is slow and as good as she is no one is interested. She is on the market but will still have a home with me no matter how long it takes. And yes, she is a green/make a good project horse :)
     
  5. abb77

    abb77 Well-known Member

    gtd i know where your coming from. I feel that i dont really ever want to sell a horse because i dont know where it will they'll end up.
     
  6. NumidianHorse

    NumidianHorse Active Member

    Completely agree GTD - people want everything in a "bombproof" package - for a small price - without doing any work *#)

    They don't seem to realise that effort = reward ... put the work into the horse you have in your paddock and you will often end up with the horse of your dreams ... rather than gazing longingly at someone else's "amazing" horse ... could it be that they've invested time, money and love into that animal to achieve those "amazing" results ... oh - and it probably didn't happen in a few months either! ;)

    When you consider that most humans have a basic school education of at least 12 years ... why would anyone expect a horse to reach "fabulous" in a couple of years :confused:

    ... and don't start me on the sale of mares with the "justification" that ... "don't have the time she needs / have too many other horses to work etc etc ... but she'd make a great broody" .... oh yes - so you have a horse you don't want / can't sell - and the market's flooded ... but you're happy for her to be sold (unwanted) to produce yet one more horse that no-one will want. By the time that foal reaches the age of 10 ... how many homes will it have had? If it is moved on several times and is in a state of confusion / having to adjust to new circumstances - how can it ever realistically become calm and bombproof?
     
  7. Sallighted

    Sallighted Well-known Member

    Also I am finding that people are just expecting too much of horses without putting in the work. Yes in the old days it was fine when the old stockman would spend about 4-5hrs a day riding one horse, then said horse would also be strung in the line still learning skills for the next 4hrs so yes by the time the horse was 6-8 yrs old they would have HEAPS of experience under their belt. People these days are very lucky to even spend 1/2hr with their horse every day or maybe a few times a week... how can we expect horses to be well educated etc. when the time is just not put in ';'
     
  8. Go the Distance

    Go the Distance Well-known Member

    I was on Albany Gateway Nimetyau and there is a lot of horses on there that would need good experienced people to take them on. I am not having a go at you personally Nimetyau but these horses that are for sale are mostly all green, problem, project or half started. As for the broodmares the weanling/yearling market is already saturated so why advertise a failed race horse as a broodmare??

    It takes a lot of work, experience, time and effort to get these horses up and going. How many people are going to have the knowlegde or experience to do that??? I have to say over the years with my dealings of the horse world down here there are only certian quarters where there seems to be some good experienced horse people that could make successes of these horses. On average the horsemanship is pretty so-so from what I am exposed to which I think is why we get the revolving horse door. Hell it couldn't be the horse handler that is the problem, it must be the horse;).

    I know I have been asked to help by these people. I do my bit and get the young horse up and going out confidently through the bush only to be told later that:

    a) the person hasn't bothered to work it after I have finished with it';'

    b) the horse is doing this, that or the other when it never did it when I worked it so it is very odd it develops this behaviour now:confused:.

    c) or the most saddest the horse has just reverted back to its old behaviour which means the horse wasn't the problem in the first place :mad:.


    There are a lot of success stories with stuff I have worked but equally there are failures too. Not horse, human.

    Considering that website is only for the small area of Albany and the surrounding areas there were a lot of horses on there. I have just spent a whole year on one project horse and it has taken me hours of time, money and effort. I have just taken my next one on and it is very time consuming and costs money.

    A lot of them are very cheaply priced as well so it means they are easy for some people to buy. The other thing OTTB's takes heaps of time to rehab but they are cheap.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  9. Diesel91

    Diesel91 Well-known Member

    I love the oh i rescued him but now he is going to waste / is to much horse for me to handle. Right so you saved him from sitting in a paddock possibly going to be put down to put him in another paddock and now flogging him off to somebody else. People need to take the emotion out as they think they are doing the right thing "saving" from being pts but in reality is probably the best thing for it :(:(
     
  10. nimetyau

    nimetyau Well-known Member

    I know you weren't having a go at me. I was just trying to bat for the other side so to speak. I would much rather see people on purpose bred horses than OTTB's but the reality is there are some nice TB's out there that would otherwise go to the doggers. I am all for that if there is no other choice.

    Albany unfortunately does have a couple of "Backyard breeders" that breed unregistered horses or save them just to make a quick buck.

    I can be a tree hugger some times and wish I could save them all. I have my latest ex-race horse here to see what she might amount to as she is only 3 and I didn't want her going to the doggers. I am just lucky I have the means and money to have them for life if I have to. I do vet my prospective buyers very well and they do not necessisarily get sold to someone just cause they want it.

    Gosh its hard to put in writing what you want to say without dribbling on!
     
  11. Go the Distance

    Go the Distance Well-known Member

    Your alright chick:). I am hearing you:)). I think it is good you are trying to the best for that young horse and you do have to advertise them somewhere. Also in the meantime providing good care.

    If you 'do' horses right there is a huge cost in the first few weeks of taking them. I have sat down and worked it out for the average 'I wanna get a pony'.

    Teeth, Oiling and Vet Worm - $270 (every horse I take on gets this week one or two)
    Set of Shoes - $110
    Buying the first lot of feed/additives - $200
    Agistment for the month in advance- $160

    That is the first week!!! You haven't even got on it yet:D. Then you get on it and realise everything you were told about it was crap and now it is a bit out of your scope so you need to send it to a trainer for a month OR have two lessons a week just to ride the bloody thing. Add on another $1400.

    Or if your skilled enough you spend every day for 6 weeks handling it and riding it just so it is safe to jump on and ride out. By then you need another set of shoes, you have bought another couple of hundred bucks worth of feed. Your gear probably didn't fit properly or your like me and have had to order a whole new saddle for $2500. We are starting to hit around the $5000 mark already and we are up to week 6!!!

    So this is what often happens. 'I wanna get a pony' gets a pony - the cheaper the better. Finds cheap agistment and then puts horse in the paddock. Doesn't hand feed because they can't afford to. Buys some cheap gear. Approaches pony to place gear on and pony misbehaves. 'I wanna get a pony' usually has a few mates that also 'wanna get a pony' but they don't have one yet. These mates are usually 'experts' on ponies. So eventually they round the pony up and wrestle the ill fitting gear onto it. The pony hasn't had his teeth done in who knows how long so he is already not a happy camper with the bit.

    There is then a great discussion on who will get on the pony. One 'expert' finally decides she is the best one to get on him. Leaps aboard the pony and all hell breaks loose. Pony gets put back in the paddock and advertised. Sell the pony and buy another one. Cycle repeats itself.
     
  12. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    So much cynicism :( Go The Distance, out of curiosity, were the horses advertised as being Green & Problematic, or is that your interpretation of the ads? The reason I ask is I had actually thought, "Yay, an honest Seller", until Nimetyau couldn't find the same ads.

    I've sold green horses and Mundi ponies. I do like them when I take them on, then often come to love them, but that doesn't mean I had ever taken them on with the intention of keeping them? I've also taken on problematic horses, assessed (IMO) and then delivered them straight to a place I know they won't come back from. I do not try and pass on dangerous horses to someone who is probably more experienced than me - as that (hypothetical) person is probably overloaded already :(

    I have horses that I am committed to, those I've bred (bar the 2011 foalie), and others will come and go in the meantime. They do get sent off with an education and resume...because, like humans, your chances in the big, wide World are considerably lessened without those two things :)
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  13. Go the Distance

    Go the Distance Well-known Member

    Yes I agree Wattle I am cynical but also a realist. I suppose for me it was quite a surprise to see so many for sale at once. Which is probably why I never usually venture into the world of buying and selling or even looking at what is for sale as inevitably it saddens me. I think too like anything ignorance is bliss.

    If you don't really know how much work is required to 'fix' all these things then you don't get overwelmed by it OR if you have the same buying and selling mentality then you don't see it as a problem. Please don't think this is directed at anyone personally but it is true that there is that mentality in the horse world. If I change horses then it will be better.

    For example never in a million years could I go to a Mundi sale and buy a horse because I would want to bring them all home. It is just the way of the world I guess. One has to accept that these things happen';'. Not just with horses but also other animals and I have to say even children.
     
  14. nimetyau

    nimetyau Well-known Member

    I suppose that is why I couldn't find the same ads as you. I am used to seeing lots of horses for sale from various ages to stages of education. It is becoming quite the norm I guess for OTTB to be advertised either for re-educating under saddle or a broodmare. They are now often not that cheap. I think sometimes its the cheap ones you should be watching out for if you are buying as they can generally be from someone trying to make a quick buck.

    I also can't understand the prices of some stud stock as I know how much it costs to breed a foal just to weaning and some are being sold for less than the cost of a stud fee.
     
  15. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    GTD, please don't think I was taking your comments as having been personally directed to anyone :) I was just replying with my own experiences :)

    I love the Mundi sales :D Everyone knows that :) I like socialising with my friends, and you can only hope that the sad horses there do go on to have a better time of it, even if that means in a can. I don't ever despair that the sad-looking horses are there - I just keep telling myself that at least the Owners are giving them a chance to have a better life (or putting them out of their current misery). It's the horses left up the back paddocks of places that rip my heart out :( It's the people that then buy a cheap horse and try and flog it the next week that also make me :mad: You've taken on the responsibility, make sure you sell it responsibly!! I don't think many people go to the Sales with the thought of buying a horse....they just sucker you in sometimes (or your friends do :D)

    I, too, tend to not read For Sale ads. There are just soooooooo many.....yet people still choose the "cheap" OTTB - then invest huge amounts trying to fix that horse, then have spend huge amounts to have themselves re-trained when they eventually give up and get a "good" horse.

    As to the Studs selling cheap foalies & weaners......that just says to me, "We've not put much into this, so not asking much for it" - Stay Away Public!!
     
  16. Go the Distance

    Go the Distance Well-known Member

    OK Wattle and Nimetyau I think it is my interpretation of the adds:D. In future I PROMISE not to read any for sale adds AT ALL and I will never ever attend the Mundi sales as I would probably require sedation and a straight jacket by the end of it:p.

    I am glad you do what you do and give the horses a better chance. I am too much of a sook to do it. I would end up collecting everything. I wish you well with it all and if I ever get stuck for a pony instead of traumatising myself with looking at the for sales I will come and see you:D.
     
  17. nimetyau

    nimetyau Well-known Member

    My vet once said to me "all you can hope for is a cure" as in trying to get out of horses for me is nearly impossible. I just can't do it completely.

    I tend to read the ad's just to keep in touch with the market. Its like reading the real estate or cars guide to me. :D
     

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