What's your worming regime?

Discussion in 'Horse Management' started by Nicki, Oct 18, 2011.

  1. Nicki

    Nicki Well-known Member

    A bit of a spinoff from the StrategyT thread. Everybody's responses got me wondering about the different worming regimes people use.

    How often do you worm?
    What brand do you use?
    What brand do you rotate with?
    How often do you rotate?
    Do you test manure for worm burden?
    Do you use 'alternative' methods of parasite control as a substitute or to compliment your wormer, and if so what do you use?
    Do you drench? How often?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011
  2. Hen

    Hen Well-known Member

    How often do you worm?

    Every 6-8 weeks.

    What brand do you use?
    I use the year a/year b program with strategy and equimax respectively.

    How often do you rotate?

    Year A Strategy T all through except May and September, and Year B Equimax all through except Strategy T May and September. Occasionally I use Equest Gel also to combat encysted red worm larvae, and at the yearly vet drenching I always have Panacur included so they get a worm, bot and oil.

    Do you test manure for worm burden?
    No.

    Do you use 'alternative' methods of parasite control as a substitute or to compliment your wormer, and if so what do you use?
    No.
     
  3. Nicki

    Nicki Well-known Member

    Thanks Hen, you just reminded me to add another question about drenching :)
     
  4. ZaZa

    ZaZa Guest

    Gah ! With the luck I'm having at the moment I'm never worming again !!!!! *#)
    Just kidding ;)


    How often do you worm? Approx every 8 to 10 weeks.
    What brand do you use? Varies
    What brand do you rotate with? Again it varies but have used Strategy T this time .
    How often do you rotate? Every 3 or so wormings
    Do you test manure for worm burden? No
    Do you use 'alternative' methods of parasite control as a substitute or to compliment your wormer, and if so what do you use? No
    Do you drench? Only if there's a need.

    I don't do a year in/year out rotation so a little hard to answer some of those questions. I vary the compound every 3 or 4th time.
     
  5. Nicki

    Nicki Well-known Member


    That's kinda why I asked about that, to see the different rotation schedules. Thanks for your input, I hope your horses get better too!
     
  6. wormwatch

    wormwatch Active Member

    How often do you worm?
    Once a year (autumn) if I have seen bot eggs on the horses
    and/or
    when introducing a new horse onto property with uncertain treatment/grazing history
    and/or
    if horses have been grazing pastures likely to be heavily contaminated with immature worms
    and/or
    whenever egg counts rise over 200 eggs per gram (which they haven't done in last 4 years since I started monitoring)
    and/or
    if the horse is showing clinical signs consistent with internal parasites

    The reason I am comfortable with this is because I intensively monitor the horses so have a fair idea of worm burdens in the horses and on the pasture that they are grazing. I wouldn't be as comfortable with this frequency of treatment if I didn't have that information. That said, the frequency of monitoring for my own horses is not really feasible for most other horse owners/managers.

    What brand do you use?
    I choose treatments based on the active ingredients that target the parasites I am trying to cover with that specific worming treatment rather than brand.

    What brand do you rotate with?
    I have not had any need to rotate active ingredients due to (in)frequency of treatments and good strongyle worm control achieved with current management. If I was having to treat more frequently, I would be basing my treatment decisions on using the safest and most effective treatment possible to get worm numbers under control AND using paddock management to limit re-infection. Only then would I start to worry about rotation. I am much more concerned about having a control programme that achieves adequate worm control and has some "refugia" built into the treatment programme than rotation per se.

    How often do you rotate?
    No rotation needed at the moment because of the low frequency of treatments and low exposure of what parasites are present to treatments.

    Do you test manure for worm burden?
    Yes - about once a month. The high frequency of testing is because I'm often doing egg counts anyway, so do counts for the horses on my own property at the same time. It's also easier because I only have 2 horses here :) I would be comfortable with less frequent monitoring in a "closed herd" (ie no new horses coming onto pasture) once I had a good understanding of egg count patterns in the horses over a period of time.

    Do you use 'alternative' methods of parasite control as a substitute or to compliment your wormer, and if so what do you use?
    Good paddock management and having horses with good innate resistance to strongyle worms helps. Making sure the horses had low worm egg count when first introduced to property probably helped by reducing risk of worm numbers accumulating on the pasture. Not having any young horses on the property also simplifies worm control.

    Do you drench? How often?
    Only if the horse has signs of sand burden, and even then I wouldn't add anthelmintic/wormer to drench.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2011
  7. Anna E

    Anna E Guest

    How often do you worm? Once a year in autumn, or when a new horse arrives (worm and quarantine for a week)
    What brand do you use? Mostly ivermectin based for the annual treatment. Ocasionally with a wormer targeted to bots if I haven't managed to keep up with egg removal.
    What brand do you rotate with?Haven't bothered much with rotation as I worm so infrequently.
    How often do you rotate? See above
    Do you test manure for worm burden? No
    Do you use 'alternative' methods of parasite control as a substitute or to compliment your wormer, and if so what do you use? Pasture management: my horses run on 100 acres of stubble in summer which means they would pick up very few worms. They are wormed before returning to their smaller paddocks in autumn, so enter that system with few worms. These padocks are rotated regularly.
    Do you drench? How often? No. Only one wormer is still effective if given at the same time as an oil drench (if I rememebr corrcetly). I think a horse's system has enough to cope with when being oil drenched for sand without adding another chemical into the mix.
     
  8. snoopydoo

    snoopydoo Well-known Member

    I used to worm in the BHS way - every time the horse was shod - so every 6/7 weeks.

    Since then I've educated myself a bit and worm approx every 3 months as the seasons change (due soon!) I use ivermectin products generally but do change once during a year.
    if a new horse comes on the property it is wormed immediately and yarded until the wormer has cleared it's system and then it is wormed as the others.

    I have had a worm count done once but it didn't show any worms. I had it done as the horse was badly scouring.

    I do pick up the poo in the smaller paddocks but not my larger one. This is regularly harrowed to break up the poo and dry out any parasites that are lurking.
     
  9. mylittlepony

    mylittlepony Well-known Member

    How often do you worm? 4-6 monthly, unless new horse comes onto the property.
    What brand do you use? I use Strategy T and Equimax LV
    What brand do you rotate with? as above
    How often do you rotate? every second wormer. I use Strategy T once then the Equimax once.
    Do you test manure for worm burden? No
    Do you use 'alternative' methods of parasite control as a substitute or to compliment your wormer, and if so what do you use? Pasture control
    Do you drench? How often? Only if nessasary.
     
  10. Hen

    Hen Well-known Member

    Er, Snoopy - I am sure you didn't mean to come across as such, but I hope you are not inferring that those of us who choose to follow the traditional method of parasite control are 'uneducated'? ';'

    New ways of doing things are not necessarily better than old ways IMO ;)

    6-8 weekly worming has worked for me for 25 years, sticking to what I know and trust, and I was raised by a diet of BHS ... to me, in my opinion, it is the optimal guide.
     
  11. Lauren

    Lauren Gold Member

    How often do you worm? Every 6 weeks.
    What brand do you use? Equimax
    What brand do you rotate with? Strategy T
    How often do you rotate? every third wormer usually...
    Do you test manure for worm burden? Nope
    Do you use 'alternative' methods of parasite control as a substitute or to compliment your wormer, and if so what do you use? No
    Do you drench? How often? Once a year if on a grass paddock.. every 6 months if on a sand paddock. I fairly regularly do the ''sand'' test. If they have a large amount of sand in their manure I drench.
     
  12. fishiz3434

    fishiz3434 Active Member

    How often do you worm? Only when I HAVE to, If they are going on spell to their agistment which requires EVERY horse entering to be wormed. It works out to be
    What brand do you use? Alternating between Ammo, Strategy-T and Bimectin.
    What brand do you rotate with? Above
    How often do you rotate? 2 Ammo followed by 2 Bimectin followed by 1 Strategy-T.
    Do you test manure for worm burden? Yes, but only if i havn't wormed for more than 6 months, then I'll know if they need it or if I can just leave it until they go on spell.
    Do you use 'alternative' methods of parasite control as a substitute or to compliment your wormer, and if so what do you use? Limit contact with other horses, rest paddocks, big garlic does once a week, using wormers less often means the worms don't build up a tolerance to the wormers.
    Do you drench? How often? Once a year, one month after the first rains after summer.

    I'll just add that my ponies are not at an agistment, if they were then I'd be worming every 2 months with the same rotation. **)
     
  13. wormwatch

    wormwatch Active Member

    I'm not sure when BHS recommendations were written, but in 2011 I suspect you would be hard-pressed to find a parasitologist that agrees with worming all adult horses every 6-8 weeks.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011
  14. Hen

    Hen Well-known Member

    In all honesty, a parasitologist can kiss my ass, pardon the pun ;) I do what works and has historically been viewed as the most appropriate management approach.


    Personally I would rather over worm than under worm - I rotate my compounds carefully, thus avoiding resistance to mectins.

    But then I don't have a vested interest in faecal egg counts either :p
     
  15. Anna E

    Anna E Guest

    BHS recommendations are for England, where there is green grass and moisture all year and horses are stocked at very high rates. So historically it makes sense and has always worked - FOR ENGLAND. I'm not sure the BHS is all that interested in how Australians worm their horses.
    Worming every 6-8 weeks makes perfect sense in the face of ongoing continual worm development and challenge. It also does not select for resistance when the horses are continually being re exposed to new worms.
    Drenching every 6 - 8 weeks in a Western Australian summer makes no sense at all.
    Even tightly stocked irrigated properties should consider drenching less often, and preferably after a faecal test says you need to. The single exception to that being a targeted treatment for bots. (And no, I have no vested interest in faecal egg counts.
    Worming every 6-8 weeks in summer (over worming) when worms are not actively developing selects strongly for chemical resistance. Widespread resistance to ivermectin could be a serious issue for the horse industry. There are newer drenches which have been developed for sheep due to widespread resistance to ivermectins (or macrocylic lactones as they are more correctly known).. and they came along just in time. Excess use of drenches in summer led to a resistance problem in sheep in the first place. As far as I am aware no one is planning to licence these drenches for horses... So when we get the same problem in Australian horse worms, what will we do?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2011
  16. Hen

    Hen Well-known Member

    And that is your opinion AnnaE ;) and yes, resistance to mectins is an issue, which is why correct rotation of compounds is important - whether it be 6/8 weekly or otherwise.

    I am well aware of the origins of the BRITISH horse society lol!

    If you have a horse that is out competing regularly, staying in yards and grazing, it is at risk for parasites. If you also have a young horse on the property, it increases the risk of infecting your pastures.

    I like to be safe rather than sorry. And that does make perfect sense to me.

    Not about to change what I am doing, in my view it's the right thing.

    ETA: AnnaE, there are movements in England regarding this holistic approach to worming also, it's not purely an Australian thing - and just like me, there are those that oppose it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011
  17. wormwatch

    wormwatch Active Member

    History is an excellent predictor of future outcomes. History has shown that frequent exposure of parasite populations to treatment increases the rate at which parasites develop resistance to that treatment, and treating all animals at frequent intervals (regardless of need) is a major reason why resistance is now present to all of the treatment groups in horse worms.

    WA is lucky to be the home of some very clever parasitologists that are considered world experts in the field of parasite resistance to treatments. It's based on their advice that I'm very comfortable with my own worm control practices and recommendations. The frequent monitoring is why I'm comfortable that it's working for my own horses. The people I do egg counts for make decisions based on their specific circumstances which are usually different to my own circumstances and usually involve more frequent treatments and less frequent monitoring.

    Lucky for me, I have a day job and my vested interest in looking at horse poop is done as a hobby and service to the local horse community. It was actually a stint in UK where worm egg counts are the norm and the fact that the other Perth labs were not interested/encouraged to be doing testing for horses that inspired me to set up a "lab" :p Perhaps the horse owners I met in the UK were reading a different BHS manual?
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2011
  18. GoneRama

    GoneRama Gold Member

    Up here the horses get done every 5-6 weeks due to the pasture they're running on. Not sure what Troppo does but the station manager said to me that their horses get done that often, especially in the tail end of the wet season/early dry season. Kenoath was on their rotation for a while, not sure what it was.

    Down home (NSW/Vic border), he'll get wormed with Ivomec as soon as he gets there (early November) then probably won't get done again until the autumn. I've never wormed him with the same stuff twice as I kinda couldn't get my head around the whole rotation thing :eek: We only ever used Ivomec down home to be completely honest and never had a drama ';' Use the exact same stuff on dogs that we use on horses that gets used on cattle, 1ml on a piece of bread does dogs for ticks and worms and has helped with mange too.
     
  19. Hen

    Hen Well-known Member



    You get new age new fangled notions everywhere, England is no exception, as I already noted in above post ;)

    And you get those traditionalists who are opposed to it - which upsets the new age supporters. I bet you also get paid for your service to the local horse industry, so you still have a vested interest, don't you lol!

    THose horse owners reading a 'different BHS manual' were probably reading a natural horsemanship bible and waving herbs and essential oils at their horses too :}

    SUrpised worming compounds have not become prescription only yet :rolleyes:

    ETA: Worming a horse once a year shocks me rigid. Hate to think what's going on in their guts.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011
  20. wormwatch

    wormwatch Active Member

    Only in Denmark.

    I'm off to twirl my rope and hope I don't knock over the crystals and microscope on the way :p
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2011

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