warmblood x standardbred

Discussion in 'Breeding Horses' started by smash, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    here is just 1 mare "monogal" who was a purebred standardbred and was one of 3 standardbreds used to breed Hanoverians at 1 Gerhards stud.

    Purebred standardbred mare Monagal
    Monogal Hanoverian

    Had foals such as Falkrich
    Falkrich Holsteiner
    Falkrich ? one of Australia?s most successful sires?

    Despite only covering a handful of mares each year throughout his career, Falkrich is currently one of the more successful sires in Australia. His stallion son, Wirragulla Nicklaus (out of a mare of Trakehner / Hanoverian breeding) has won a number of World Cup Showjumping qualifiers and was a candidate for the Australian showjumping team at the Beijing Olympics. Falkrich also produced two Grand Prix dressage horses, Finagin and Frontier (a prospect for future Australian international selection) and several better than useful eventers.
    As is common in Australia, Gerhard also established his own studbook ? the Holsteiner Breeders Association of Queensland in 1978.
    At the age of 75, Gerhard is still breeding a few foals every year?
     
  2. kiraSpark

    kiraSpark Gold Member

    Whoops sorry, posted on wrong thread!
    *doh*
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2012
  3. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    Are we discussing the why's and wherefore's, or giving examples of where these crosses have been super-successful? :D

    I haven't ridden one (yet), so I have no anecdotes to go on.....just pictures and videos and more videos of the movement :)
     
  4. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    Oh sorry wattle, I was asked to put up some examples of this cross in stormies thread, but did not want to turn her thread into a discussion on this cross and ruin her baby thread
     
  5. fuddles

    fuddles Well-known Member

    a trotter or a pacer is still a standardbred isnt it

    l know the hannas (donvigs)did used a standie mare to valuta and Tony Utendale was also looking at the cross was explaining to us something about hips and movement but you know this is going back at least 25 years ago

    but l guess it comes down to our perception of thinking that standardbred is a lower class of horse. As that is what we have always been taught,
     
  6. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    I didn't realise how true this is until I just read your comment!!!

    I remember as a child....only about 25yrs ago, there were a few "fancy" breeds (all papered), then brumbys, station horses....and everything off the track, which were either the prettier TB's or standies. My first horse was a roan standy....so a fraction above the plain bays....but....what a thought-provoking comment fuddles!!
     
  7. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    Yeah fuddles, people would be shocked what went into some warmbloods back when they were trying to establish them here in australia all those years ago lol
     
  8. Sorrel

    Sorrel Well-known Member

    It seems that the percentage of ex standardbred or current standardbred owners all agree with the cross.

    Realistically how many will get to that higher educated ridden level in WA.

    Ethically seeing Stb x andalusians and other stb x on the market - dont sell for a performance market ...
     
  9. fuddles

    fuddles Well-known Member

    how many purpose bred horses never get to a high standard of education
     
  10. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    I didn't breed mine to get to any level of anything. He's just for me to to do everything on, and I will do a LOT of things with him :D Breed shows, trail, showjumping, ARC, eventing, games days, versatility, MAYBE unofficial hacking, and some dressage. I'll be older......and I want to get more into dressage, but realistically, he will go do whatever I feel like :)
     
  11. Hen

    Hen Well-known Member

    There is only one thing that turns me off standardbreds - PACING. Also, they are conformationally driving horses, not riding horses.

    They do however tend to have wonderful, kind, forgiving natures and many of them can certainly jump! I would not want this cross myself but interested nonetheless to see examples that have done well, including stockies' horses :)
     
  12. fuddles

    fuddles Well-known Member

    in vic they have trotters and pacers, the trotters do not pace at all.
     
  13. Hen

    Hen Well-known Member

    Are the trotters standardbreds fuddles? We don't get them here in WA, trotters that is - just pacers. Are they bred differently? How does that work?
     
  14. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    Sorry, please bare with me but I don't know how to shred people's quotes apart...plus when people do that, it always seems to be for the negative ';'

    1. Most Standies are, of course, bred to race.....a very small number are successful
    2. Historically, Standies built to race with carts were large, heavy-boned creatures. Modern standies are getting smaller and finer, and would rival TB's for bloodline breeding. Tracks are getting tighter - and faster.
    3. It is a small % of Standy foals that are bred pacing naturally. But it's a gait seen in many species of four-legged animal. My own Standy X does not pace...but it wouldn't have mattered to me if he did. I find it a comfortable gait, and it has, in it's time, been valued for long-distance riding (not Modern endurance competitions).
     
  15. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    The racing kind ;)
     
  16. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    smash....I found what might be a follow-up to your post.

    "Breeding Part Breds
    There are always those who like to say this is waste of time, especially here in Oz. And like any breeding program selecting the appopriate stock in which you choose to breed is no less important in the standardbred as it is with any other. There are (as everyone has agreed) way to many horses already headed to the knackery without careless people breeding just for the sake of it, and this goes for all breeds.

    Having said that, the argument originally was not who or what but why would you want to cross breed a stb in your breeding program, and would/are they successful?

    1) French are already well ahead having cross bred their "Trotters" (cold blooded version of the standardbred - they do not have pacers there), with warmbloods for successful showjumpers.

    2) Gerhard Quast, (importer of Warmblood Stallions such as Monopol & Lander and breeder of champion world class show horses) speaks to "The Horse Magazine" about his experience with Standardbreds
    "When I bought Monopol to Australia, I bred him to thoroughbred mares but I also found three trotter mares because in Germany we had the famous jumping stallion Halla who was half trotter so I thought I would try something here. The trotters don't break down so quick as thoroughbreds. peter Weston who rode Lander for me told me 'don't tell people they are trotters, people don't like that', and I said 'I don't care'. I picked the best ones, not just any trotter and it worked. There was Falkrich who is Finigan's (Judy Dierk's big chestnut horse) father, his grandmother was a trotter - all three of the trotter mares that I chose have resulted in Grand Prix horses. They were good in the first cross but in the second cross when you get the other bloodlines in them they are even better. I've bred about 13 Grand Prix horses and about 12 of them have trotter blood. Out of one half trotter mare I have bred 12 A Grade showjumpers with Monopol and they were excellent."

    These are just 2 examples. But I consider Gerhard Quast to be a leader in his game and putting it politely ~ a bit more advanced than those mouthing off on forums."

    I won't be 2nd Crossing mine.....someone else will have to update :)
     
  17. Hen

    Hen Well-known Member

    OK, so from a quick google I found this; "Slightly different bloodlines are found in trotters than pacers, though both can trace their heritage back to Hambletonian". So they are 'different' .. I have never actually seen a trotter here in WA, only pacers.

    Bit like TB sprinters vs stayers I suppose? Same breed but different bloodlines for different characteristics/traits?

    It would make sense that the trotter would be the better to breed with for riding horses than the pacer.
     
  18. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    Standardbreds have somewhat a dirty name when it comes to cross breeding. you will find that many breeders try to hide the fact that their warmblood has standardbred breeding in their parentage in this age.

    All i was really trying to say is a good horse is a good horse, regardless of colour or breeding.
    History has proven itself over and over again with horses that no one in their right mind would have breed, yet they turn out to be superstars, whilst their full blooded siblings turn out to be nothings at best.

    I use to look after monogal so personally know she paces, she was definitely one of those horses that you could not judge the book by its cover.
    it was an honor to have spent time with her and her beautiful owners.
     
  19. Lokenzo

    Lokenzo Gold Member

    I have personally ridden 2 Standardbred X's.

    1 was Stb x Andalusian, he was a lovely BIG boy, didn't pace, cantered fine and didn't roll his hips (classic in Stbs as they need to in order to pace).

    2nd was a Stb x Cleveland Bay. Not 'pretty' but gee he could move! Massive horse, massive huge trot and canter had plenty of lift. Again, did not pace.

    Another Stb x who I really like and also didn't pace and it is such a shame he was taken away from this world to soon was Rumble Hill's beautiful Roy. Done carefully this cross can really work.

    And for a 4th lovely Stb cross, there was one competing in the Grand Prix dressage at Equitana 2010. He was not 'pretty' but didn't need to be to perform passage, pirouettes, piaffe etc.

    Then there is B An Aristocrat that Nannygoat used to ride. No-one could say he was less than impressive, Stb X Friesian.

    Lets also not forget another lovely Stb x Warmblood doing quite well unofficial hacking etc owned by Carly.

    I have never seen any of these pace! I have however seen an Arab and a Thoroughbred that paced!
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2012
  20. kp

    kp Well-known Member

    Can't believe I am posting on this thread. But had to comment on some things said. Standardbreds are bred to pace or trot fast. The pace is a genetic inheritance. The vast majority of standardbreds have the ability to pace. A lot will pace as foals, some more than others. Trotters also pace. Have a few trotters and one will pace on a regular basis. This horse is 'trotter' bred for a number of generations. There are trotters in WA. I find the trotters a little different to the pacers. They seem to be built different and mine have all been highly strung. I wouldn't like to ride any of them!

    A lot of people think there horse paces. But don't seem to realize what pace is!
    Lateral walk is just that, lateral walk. For it to be a pace there would have to be a moment of suspension. The pace is defined as a two beat lateral gait with a moment of suspension.

    There are some bloodlines that I think would be better suited to cross breeding for dressage than others. Some seem to produce Standardbreds with better canters than others. Most my Standardbreds canter in their daily work. Some better than others. They tend to canter flatter than other breeds.

    I think that there are some Standardbreds and their crosses that could be very good ridden horses if better riders had them. Unfortunately good riders stay away from them, leaving them to beginners who struggle to educate any horse.
     

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