Update on Mandela

Discussion in 'Horse Management' started by Sugar's Mum, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. sherridin

    sherridin Well-known Member

    Sorry, just for clarification, what is an equine podiatrist/vet and accupuncturist? Is she an actual qualified vet? And podiatrist? Is she a farrier too?
  2. Sugar's Mum

    Sugar's Mum Gold Member

    she is a fully qualified vet who has a love of horses. She completed the equine podiatry course which is 12 months of uni level I believe and the acupuncture course as well so has heaps of training.
  3. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    just had a look at that video, and well yeah, he is one sore boy in sooooooo many ways.
    i am still in shock that you thought he was OK to ride.
    life is one big learning curve hey
  4. Talkingshell

    Talkingshell Well-known Member

    Had a look at this latest video clip....to be honest he is very sore somewhere in the back end, something is not right, I wouldn't be riding him like this as there might be something serious in his pelvis area. He doesn't look right in trotting around with this back legs like this. Poor thing....
  5. Sugar's Mum

    Sugar's Mum Gold Member

    He is not being ridden TS. Vet is pleased with the care he is being given and the exercise he is getting.
    He doesn't move like that on the straight. Interesting that he is so much worse on a bend.

    Will post what the vet has to say when she comes today to give an acupuncture treatment.
  6. Sugar's Mum, what I think about your horse and his problems is irelevant ATM, I just wanted to say how impressed I am with your courtesy and the way you have kept your composure throughout this thread - hats off to you for that. :)
  7. Sugar's Mum

    Sugar's Mum Gold Member

    Thank you SC. I much appreciate your kind comment.
  8. Sugar's Mum

    Sugar's Mum Gold Member

    The Vet was out this arvo to do the acupuncture.
    It will be interesting to see how he goes. I have to give him 24 hours of paddock rest before I start working him beside the road.

    She could see no indication of lameness only being disunited. She is doing more research re gaited horses and we will see how he goes.

    Hlearly does not cope wiht the round yard and she wants me to work him in a straight line as much as possible and over troting poles to encourage him to trot correctly.
  9. ditto!!!!!!
  10. Babe

    Babe Well-known Member

    The vet couldnt see the lameness??

    Honestly if this were my horse, I would seriously take him to Murdoch and get xrays of his pelvis, stifles, hocks....and anything else that looks suspect.
    There is something seriously seriously wrong here.

    SOrry SM, not what you want to hear...he just looks so sore:(
  11. BigRed

    BigRed Active Member

    Well theres seems to be improvement from his last video even tho its in the round yard but definately looked like he was moving better but he did not like going on the left rein tho
    And he looks great too!!
  12. woki

    woki New Member

    Sorry, but this thread concerns me.

    Sugars Mum, after reviewing this thread and the posted videos, I have the following concerns;

    1. Your horse seems to have a moderate and persistent lameness in the Right forelimb and perhaps the Left forelimb also

    2. Given his breed and age, and reported heel contracture I would be concerned about pathology that causes chronic heel pain

    3. The issues of muscle soreness, temperament, gait, posture etc are all difficult to interpret without a complete workup of the obvious lameness.

    4. I would suggest to you that a thorough veterinary lameness examination (with nerve blocks and possible xrays) if the only efficient pathway ahead for you to take.

    I am concerned that your vet has not given you a more accurate diagnosis. I am also concerned that treatment has been started without an attempt to localise the lameness - were you offered nerve blocks ??

    Under saddle he doesn't track up. On the ground he does. Trotting in a straight line he moves evenly but on a curve it's like his back end is not connected to his front end and they move at different times so he doesn't get an even 2 beat trot on a bend. He is worse on the right rein then the left.

    This a a perfect description of the gait of a horse with a Right Forelimb lameness. Given that statistically nearly 90% of the forelimb lamenesses I see are hoof related I am puzzled why your vet hasnt taken action to evaluate the lameness further and has just started treatment, which will not help hoof pain.

    His feet have contracted heels which are definately improving over time and his toes are over long so she gave me some tips for how to trim them to reduce the length of his toes over time. She does not believe that the feet are contributing to the problems but are not helping so I am to work on them every week to just keep the toes as short as I can.

    Why are is heels contracted ?? How can she rule out the feet as a cause of the problem without a nerve block ?

    We gave him a sacral release which definately helped his trot on the straight.

    She found no pain or discomfort through his back from shoulder to hip either side except she did find discomfort in his right loin area. She found his hami's were tender and the muscle over the lower shoulder area was tender on the acupressure points on both sides. He was also tender in his neck particularly around the poll and just below to the side.

    What does all this mean ?

    She thinks the shoulder pain is caused by a sore left hind. (Hami area)

    Whats causing the left hind pain ??

    With an unknown history she doesn't know if the high head carriage is caused by pain or by mental issues due to past injury leading to protective behaviours.

    I would argue that his head carriage is due to forelimb pain, I see these all the time, its funny how the head carriage normalises when you block out the painful pathology.

    She was concerned about his coat (Long maybe twice summer coat length and curled at the ends) and wants me to get him accessed for mineral imbalance. He is not wormy nor does he have sand as he was been done for both.

    What mineral balance assessment did she recommend you to have done ?

    So she has gone away to give Man a chance to absorb the sacral release (He gave a huge sigh and shifted his weight) and will be back tomorrow to give him some acupunture.

    What does this mean "absorb the sacral release" ? In all my years of study in lameness treatment I have never seen any literature that addresses such treatment. I am concerned that this sounds like quakery. Can your vet send me some science that back the sacral treatment strategy ?? (maybe I am missing something)

    It has been my experience over the last 22 years with these types of lamenesses that they rarely resolve without a diagnosis being made, further that these types of lamenesses also rarely resolve with the use of treatment modalities that are unproven (ie Bowen/Massage/Sacral Release) or modalities that have limited/equivocal proof of effect (ie acupuncture)

    My advice would be to take your horse to a vet who can diagnose the lameness with more accuracy. I have concerns about you riding the horse.

    Call me if you like.

    Dr Warwick Vale

  13. Deb2

    Deb2 Guest

    Do you all think this horse is pacing because he is part standardbred or because he is altering his way of going due to pain and/or injury?

    Do you have definate knowledge of him being part standardbred, cos I lean more towards him changing his way of going due to pain, much the same as a dog with hipdisplaysia trotting like a pacer.

    Oh, and my appologies if this has been mentioned previously, I didn't check all the posts.

    Edited to say: Sorry Dr Vale, we posted at the same time. I dont want to sound like I am contradicting you, but I hadn't seen your post when I posted mine.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2011
  14. SM i would take up the chance to call Woki.. Nice offer there, he is a wealth of information!
  15. Seahorse

    Seahorse Well-known Member

    Absolutely. It's not too often you get a chance to consult with an expert on these things. And without being a vet or having any veterinary training, I do agree with the suggestion of trying to isolate the causes of pain using an experienced and qualified vet before trying Bowen etc.
    Good luck with your pony, I hope you get some answers soon :)
  16. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    by getting acupuncture/bowen is like putting a bandaide on a headache !!!!!
    you must find the CAUSE !!!!!!!!!!!!
    email woki, and get help for this horse ASAP
  17. nannygoat

    nannygoat Gold Member

    Thank you so much Dr Vale for giving your very informed opinion.

    Your reputation across Australia is one of utmost integrity and knowledge and it is extremely generous of you to offer your assistance.

    I really, really do hope that Sugars Mum will take you up on this - I would be astounded if one 'but' came back in response.....
  18. **)**)**):))
  19. Jadelise

    Jadelise Well-known Member


    Lets hope they take your advise! :}
  20. Babe

    Babe Well-known Member

    Im another that hopes you will take Warwick up on his offer.

    Please read what he has written very carefully, I originally said I would get xrays on everything that seemed suspect, and Im glad that what actions I wouldve taken in this case wouldve been correct**)

    PLEASE call Warwick today

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