Update on Mandela

Discussion in 'Horse Management' started by Sugar's Mum, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    i personally think there is a whole lot of lack of UNDERSTANDING regarding horses like mandela.
    people think that a chiro/vet/bowen or whatever, will come out and wave a magic wand, and presto we can start working towards whatever.
    the chiro/vet/bowen is just the START, and a one off treatment is useless (by the time the vet/chiro/bowen has reached your front gate to leave they are no different to whan they arrived)
    this is because muscles have a memory, the horse has found a way to move where he does not use those muscles or a way to move to avoid pain. just because a chiro/vet/bowen has worked on the horse, does not mean the horse will miraculously know he can now move differently.
    he will move exactly the same as before and sometimes a touch freer. but within 3 days will be back to the way he was.
    this is because if has used muscles (that he was previously protecting) his muscles will become sore.
    ever run up a flight of stairs and the next day you can barely walk, this is because you have used muscles in a different way and you will then spend a few days to recover (and maybe use the elevator in future) lol.
    this is just an example of the way muscles work.
    so rehabilitation is a very important part of any horse in mandela's condition. you have to work out how to help him use himself in a different way, you have to overcome the mental issues associated with a horse that has been this sore for so long. you have to know what you are doing, you have to know what muscles work how, you have to have a lot of skill in handling the mental issues, you have to have all of these qualities if you are to help a horse in mandelas condition.
    if you dont, then the horse is going to live a life of misery and pain and should be PTS or live a life where he can move his way so not to aggravate any issues (paddock ornament).
  2. Sugar's Mum

    Sugar's Mum Gold Member

    I am listening Samsh :)

    Yes I agree that he should not be in pain and that sometimes horses are better pts then in living with pain.

    However what I am hoping is that I can learn the skills needed to give him a good life.

    Anyway I shall get that video this arvo if possible so you can see what he moves like normally.
    He does have very contracted heels however that is slowly improving with the trimming I am doing.
    One step at a time.
  3. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    look forward to the video SM,
    but i think you have misunderstood what i was saying also.
    you will most likely find that horses will be fine moving in a way that suits them. this maybe VERY different to what is expected as a riding horse.
    eg: running around with his head in the air, hollow throughout the back and etc.
    moving in a way that suits them, means they are dodging pain.
    human gets on, puts weight on the back, and they just want to find a way to dodge the extra discomfort and thus begins the circle of mental and physical problems which is what you are facing right now.
    the hardest problems that "i feel" is against you, is that you have been unable to recognize the severity of where you and mani are today. this is not a snap at you personally, but just what you are up against within yourself (that you had not notice that the horse was so sore and you have been trying to desensitize him instead of helping him heal) if that makes sense?
    anyway, look forward to the video
  4. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    Yes, but it certainly gives you much insight into the issue ;)

    Also SM, you will be a miracle worker if you can fix contracted heels!
  5. KC Quarter Horses

    KC Quarter Horses Gold Member

    Just a comment on CD post

    There are times when horses show pain that they do need to be worked through the pain issue. When someone has an injury and begin to heal without physio ( of which sometimes it can be painful) it can make the situation worse .... physio is an important part of recovery and anyone who has been injured will know that.

    However, like humans it is important to be assessed by a professional and a treatment plan formulated. You need the correct exercises to work the right muscle groups. You need a plan a systematic approach to physical recovery. Done correctly under the guidance of a professional you can get amazing results ( I have experienced this) however doing the wrong thing at the wrong stage can cause harm.

    SM has already indicated that she is prepared to put in the hard yards with this horse and with good advice and a good program she could see really good results. However an initial diagnosis is required before she can move forward in a way that she feels fairly confident is the correct way for this circumstance.

    SM will learn lots from this horse as he seems to be a very stoic kind horse :)
  6. Sugar's Mum

    Sugar's Mum Gold Member

    Have fixed contracted heels before rr in a couple of horses.
    Well I cant really say I fixed it. They fixed themselves.

    I learnt how to do a basic barefoot trim and that is what I do. Over time I have found the hroses feet have corrected themselves.
  7. Poppy

    Poppy Guest

    I have just finished reading through this thread and am really looking forward to the next installments.

    SM I really admire the way in which you have taken onboard all the constructive (mostly) criticism and advice. Mani obviously has some problems but sounds like you are more than willing to give him a try.
    Best of luck and please keep the updates coming **)
  8. celestialdancer

    celestialdancer Gold Member

    Yeahp KC, not at all saying I did it all alone, I would have no idea where to start! :eek:

    My instructor, vet, bowen, and osteo all helped me.

    Long, tiring hours of stretches and running him out in the beginning.

    But we got there.

  9. KC Quarter Horses

    KC Quarter Horses Gold Member

    Which is wonderful news :) Rahni was always a little cold backed but maybe you have oversome this by hard work and dedication to your horse.

    I hope SM will get there also as her horse looks like a very kind soul :)

    My point being that sometimes a horse will show pain and that is something that needs to be worked through and other times trying to work through the pain could cause more harm ...so it really is important to get the advice of a qualified professional who specialises in the field and that is how your efforts at rehabilitation will get he best results.

    To get a proper diagnosis the horse needs to be seen. Anyone can say anything on a horse forum ....that does not make it correct. Even those who sound like they are super informed may not be correct in this circumstance.

    We give advice to the best of our abilities in the circumstance.....but that does not mean any of us are right. Only a trained professional who actually inspects the horse can get any real idea on what is required becaue they can get a wholistic impression of what is wrong :)
  10. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    **)**)**) absolutely agree!
  11. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    You might have had under run heels but not contracted as they cannot be fixed.
  12. Sugar's Mum

    Sugar's Mum Gold Member

  13. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    And there is no de-contraction at all, it has just been trimmed but contraction is the same.
  14. BigRed

    BigRed Active Member

    This has been a thoroughly interesting thread to read.
    SM I take my hat off to you.
    SM how does he move in the paddock? does he engage in play or run around at all? and if he does is there any diff in his movement or demeanor from being riding or not? Is he interested when the other horses play and run?
    I had a horse that moved in simular fashion to your boy and we found out he had bad arthritis and pedal osteitis in both front feet!
    I wish you good luck in getting to the bottom of it all and I look forward to more updates!
  15. Sugar's Mum

    Sugar's Mum Gold Member

    Hi BigRed. Yes he does run around and play but not as much as my other horses.

    I will keep your experience in mind.
    I will get some video of him moving in the paddock just haven't got there yet lol.
    Had a bit much on lately.

    eta yes there is a huge difference in his attitude without someone with reins on his back.

    I would be interested to see if there is a difference with a rider on without any connection to his head but aren't doingt hat atm until I have had him seen.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
  16. Excelsior Centerpiece

    Excelsior Centerpiece Well-known Member

    how bout lunge and wack a pessoa system on and get video of that too....

    obviously done up loose....

    will be interesting to see riden. lunge and free vids....

    and yeah- RR is right - u cant fix contracted heels....
  17. BigRed

    BigRed Active Member

    I wonder if he was ever broken to cart and used to work with pacers somehow, might be why he doesnt like the riens on him......
  18. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    SM who are you going with videoing mandela ???
  19. Sugar's Mum

    Sugar's Mum Gold Member

    Hi Smash. Have been very busy with things happening round here.
    Haven't got there yet.

    Have a vet who is an equine podiatrist and acupuncturist coming out next week to start from the ground up. She has been away so hasn't been available.
  20. Sugar's Mum

    Sugar's Mum Gold Member

    OK for those of you who are interested.

    I haven't managed to get video of him working loose in the paddock. He wont give the work you need (Calm collected trot) at free range and I need to collect someone else to help me get that video.

    However. the following is a video of him in the round yard this morning. Not a great video by any means and not all that useful but there may be a few of you who want to look at it.

    For Friends :: Manibeforepodiatristvisit.mp4 video by ImmortalShande - Photobucket

    The equine podiatrist/vet and acupuncturist came out this morning and is coming out again tomorrow.

    I had her look at the videos of Mani that I have then we went out and ran him through his paces.

    Understanding that last night we went for a moonlight ride with Mani being led down to the beach so he had more work then he has had for a while and so is showing a little more tender then usual on paddock rest. She was very pleased that he has been getting the massage and the ride out to work his feet and get him moving.

    THings she found.

    Under saddle he doesn't track up. On the ground he does. Trotting in a straight line he moves evenly but on a curve it's like his back end is not connected to his front end and they move at different times so he doesn't get an even 2 beat trot on a bend. He is worse on the right rein then the left.

    His feet have contracted heels which are definately improving over time and his toes are over long so she gave me some tips for how to trim them to reduce the length of his toes over time. She does not believe that the feet are contributing to the problems but are not helping so I am to work on them every week to just keep the toes as short as I can.

    We gave him a sacral release which definately helped his trot on the straight.

    She found no pain or discomfort through his back from shoulder to hip either side except she did find discomfort in his right loin area. She found his hami's were tender and the muscle over the lower shoulder area was tender on the acupressure points on both sides. He was also tender in his neck particularly around the poll and just below to the side.

    She thinks the shoulder pain is caused by a sore left hind. (Hami area)

    She wonders if the disunited back end is caused by a broken pelvis in the past but there is no indication visually that this is the case.

    With an unknown history she doesn't know if the high head carriage is caused by pain or by mental issues due to past injury leading to protective behaviours.

    She was concerned about his coat (Long maybe twice summer coat length and curled at the ends) and wants me to get him accessed for mineral imbalance. He is not wormy nor does he have sand as he was been done for both.

    So she has gone away to give Man a chance to absorb the sacral release (He gave a huge sigh and shifted his weight) and will be back tomorrow to give him some acupunture.

    Understanding that this is a long term problem that could have been there for as long as 11 years we are working on helping him over these issues but he may never be sound. As I said to her if I can help him be a happy, healthy horse fantastic.

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