Three Cheers for The STEWARDS

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by Jez, May 24, 2008.

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  1. Jez

    Jez Gold Member

    Just came to my attention the stewards and racing detectives have been out and about doing some random stable visits - in light of suggestions that other equine sectors should come under the same checks and balances AND the Andrew Hoy inquiry....just like to say, good to see they are doing their job and keeping an eye on things as a pre emptive move **)
  2. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    what are they looking for?
  3. Jez

    Jez Gold Member

    Generally stable visits are to see if there are any banned substances, banned/warned off people on licenced premises - i.e if a trainer has been suspended he cannot go and visit another trainers stables as that constitutes licenced premises, unlabelled bottles of medicines or liquids in stable fridges that type of thing. Also any electrical or spiked devices such as whips. These visits are completely random and if anything untoward or even vaguely suspicious such as an unlabelled bottle of liquid is found the entire visit is videotaped. I may be wrong but i believe the entire visit is videotaped anyway even if nothing is found. If anything is found then all people present are interviewed on camera - even say if they are completely unrelated to racing - i.e a friend who has dropped in for a coffee will be interviewed as to why they are on the premises.

    Its a good system.
  4. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    good for racing - bit extreme for other sports! exceptions are big events that we simply dont have over here. Horses are swabbed and gear checked at events though.
  5. Jez

    Jez Gold Member

    Id like to hope its extreme - im a big fan of Andrew Hoys but given that Hoys student Brugman is accused of wearing spiked boots when riding Sundancer 6 in the warmup - what were they doing behind closed doors? Given the process of gingering (Thanks you know who for explaining this - I had no idea what it meant until I learnt it was used in the show ring to elevate a horses tail) and all the other "little" abuses that go on, No, I dont think its extreme for other equine sectors. As you say, gear checks are done at events. Eventers are aware they are going to be gear checked. Hoy certainly would be aware that gear checks are part and parcel of the eventing scene - if the rider thought she could get away with it - then 10/1 its been done at home and as primerosecourt has said, her husband suggested it would be naive to believe eventing at this level is squeaky clean. One of the cruelest people ive ever seen has represented Australia in another discipline - when i questioned his practices he said "this is nothing, what did you think horses leap above the ground naturally?" - a "master horseman" whos books and dvds and school are internationally acclaimed as the benchmark for his discipline wouldnt like some of the pictures in existance of his training methods that didnt make it into books ever seeing daylight. Classical Dressage might be looked at in a different way if some of those pictures saw daylight.
    Why not for all disciplines?. Theres shonky people in all disciplines. You yourself Heifer and many other people here have horses bought for $1 or rescued from neglect and abuse in 'backyard' paddocks all around Australia - if there were systems such as what we have in racing in existance for all areas of horse ownership, you wouldnt end up with horses in those conditions. Last I heard, Secondchance and Save Equus etc hadnt been spotted at Ascot - because the stewards are there doing the checks and balances.
    The RSPCA are acting in the abscence of the stewards in many cases, just years down the track when the damage has been noticed by neighbours or passerbys and reported. In my ideal horse world, there would be a governing body who could go and check any horse at any time - it would save a lot of horses a lot of pain and damage.
    Last edited: May 24, 2008
  6. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    so you are suggesting that the EFA send officials out to search horse properties? thats umm different! lol Especially as there isnt even a register of WHERE horses are kept!

    My horse was not even wormed let alone registered with anyone lol. Its not those that are competing that you have to worry about! People competing LOVE their horses and spend THOUSANDS on their care etc.

    Oh and i have worked with a top dressage competitor/trainer and watched her school on a daily basis on a variety of hores and i have NEVER EVER seen ANYTHING that would give cause of alarm! There are more then one opinions on Roll Kur (i think thats what you were getting at) and it is not as commonly practiced (or practiced for as long) as you think. a little information is a dangerous thing!

    Cops cant even enter property without a warrent - i doubt that RSPCA can just to do random checks - pretty sure they need to have reason to beleive there is an animal in jepardy.

    There isnt as much money in equestrian as there is in racing - for that reason we dont have the stewards thing and the licensed premises thing. I really dont think there is as many cases of abuse/neglect etc in equestrian as in racing. How many whip shy dressage horses are there? yet it is far more common in racing. Just an example of why its a bit extreme.

    And so we must rely on citizens to recognize animals in danger. My horses for an example - people walking past their paddock along the road, visitors/neighbours, farriers/vets/instructors/other professionals who visit the horse and the property, people at shows, etc etc. There are alot of supporting professionals out there and it is up to them to report abuse/neglect to RSPCA, as well as observant members of the general public. I am SURE my horse would have been seen by neighbours and people going along the road his paddock adjoined.
  7. misskel

    misskel Well-known Member

    In all the years of riding racehorses I have probably ridden one or two that were 'whip shy' as heifer puts it. They are only used the whip on for 20 seconds if that and rarely even remember it or even feel it due to the massive amounts of adrenalin pulsing thru their veins.
    And cruelty or abuse is very rare in racing. The stewards simply will not tolerate it on any level. Hence the life bans imposed for even being caught with a bad device. Spurs are not allowed to be longer than a certain length, use of the whip is only allowed to be minimal. Lets not start this whole Racing is evil crap again!!!
  8. Jez

    Jez Gold Member

    Yep agreed Miskel - its just not tolerated because there are the checks and balances (the "Sirs") keeping an ever watchful eye over everyone.

    As far as a little information being a dangerous thing, Id think someone who has been in the game internationally for over 40 years would have more than..."a little info". And no, I wasnt referring to Roll Kur.

    Im not suggesting anything - simply responding to your statement that it was necessary in racing but extreme in other equine disciplines. You asked what the stewards look for in stable visits, I answered your question and said it was a good system. In my world it is a good system - as owners we all want a level playing field, so the stewards out and about (in this case not in the metro area) doing their job is a reassurance that those checks and balances are being done.

    On the "whip shy" thing Miskel - as you would know - over whipping = penalties.

    The stewards get bagged so often, why not give them a thumbs up every now and then?
  9. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    im not saying racing is evil. I have come across ex-racers with whip issues before, certainly more then dressage/eventing/endurance etc.

    If cruelty doesnt happen in racing, its even less likely in other sports.

    OP sounded very much like "oh look how much better the racing authority is then the equestrian"
  10. misskel

    misskel Well-known Member

    Why is it less likely in other sports???

    And tha racing authority IS better than equestrian. Like I said in a previous post, I'm about to apply for my license and I'll struggle to get it first go trust me!!! With a show horse I can call for the paperwork and have it back in the post that very week, or show jumping or eventing. No checks are done at all!! You cant even get a trainers license without at the very least $7,500 dollars in your savings account!!!! Sorry Heifer but your arguement there truly has no hope! You try to get a license from the turf club, they just about want to know what undies you'll be wearing for the next year!!!
  11. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    for one reason - MONEY. you cant make money in equestrian like you can in racing. Theres no TAB on the kalamunda dressage challenge! lol

    Necessity is the mother of all inventions - including legislature
  12. Spider n Toby

    Spider n Toby Gold Member

    Yep racing authority certainly is better then the average equestian..

    Answer me this: At a local show do riders get fined/banned for over whipping? NO - they DO in racing.

    Do riders get banned and fined for having illegal substance in THEIR bodies? NO but jockeys get tested.

    At shows, you DO see the scrawny, wormy, skinny mistread horse but do you at races? NO

    At shows you WILL see horses COMPETING and winning is some cases when they are lame or sick.. at the races? HELL NO!
  13. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    OK comparing racing to low level shows is comparing the australian swimming championships to woopwoop primary school swimming carnival.

    But even at unofficial level dressage/eventing yes you do get eliminated for over use of whip! Yes they can kick you out for your horse being sick! But no they dont swab riders because basically noone is competing for sheep stations. Once you start hitting the big time (ie FEI events) then yes they can swab you! no you wont find a wormy skinny horse, yes you will be banned for overuse of whip or spurs or bit, yes you are eliminated for lameness (they do trot outs - see Wooroloo 3DE this weekend!).

    But of course they dont go to the same measures of racing authority! how much money did you make last time you placed a TAB bet on Eventerhorse to win the local ODE? or even the nationals! Prize money is nothing in comparison to racing, betting non-existant, and riders do it for the love of the sport rather then for the bottom dollar (otherwise we SO wouldnt be out there plaiting, washing, walking the course, riding 3 times in a weekend, cleaning our own gear and horses, etc etc because there isnt much money in it at all! it is rather token - and thats the way it should stay IMHO to avoid situations where we have to have a big-brother authority to search us!)
    *steps off soap box*
  14. Jumping Bean

    Jumping Bean Well-known Member

    Must we turn this into a "my discipline is better than your discipline" argument?

    The racing industry does have a very sound system in place, agreed.

    You do get a few bad apples in the barrel in equestrian disciplines - just as you do in racing. Racing gets alot of media attention and is a lucrative source of $. It makes sense for such an industry to be regulated stringently.

    The money to have the same system in place for equestrain disciplines can't come out of thin air, and pleasure horse owners and riders generally haven't the cash of racehorse owners/trainers to pay higher rego fees etc in order to generate such income for a governing body such as the EFA, for example, to take on this kind of mission.

    At higher levels of competition (ironically enough, where $ are involved again) clearly the regulations are very tight - take the Hoy allegations as an example. At that elite level of competition there is alot more on the chopping block than a blue ribbon, and the money shelled out is unbelieveable. At that level no one is to have an unfair advantage, there is alot on the line, so investigations and check are carried out. Sadly it is just not practical to do this for pony clubbers and novice eventers.
  15. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    agreed jumping bean!
  16. Spider n Toby

    Spider n Toby Gold Member

    Well Jezzy, I think the stewards are doing a FANTASTIC job. We had a stable inspection with them and passed with flying colours! YAHOO ( or was that the shire checks? )

    I do think it really should be made a nessacery in all equestian displines.............Maybe they are to scared to have there stables checked out!?!??! ROFL
  17. Jumping Bean

    Jumping Bean Well-known Member

    Ummmm Spid I wouldn't give a toss if someone came to check my stables pmsl! I have never done anything to the detriment of my horses and never will, in fact I sincerely resent any underlying insinuation that I might be! :mad: As I am sure many others would be.

    It won't ever happen - because as I have just said above - money doesn't grow on trees. There are alot more pleasure horses than there are race horses, it would be a mammoth and unrealistically expensive operation, and no, I wouldn't support it.
  18. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    How do you propose they make a list of every location a horse is kept? because im telling you now that its not the larger establishments who would have a problem - B didnt come from a large stable. He came from a paddock out the back of the hills. How many horses in WA at last count? heck of a lot is the answer!

    And i would have no prob anyone inspecting my horses as i know that you couldnt get better looked after horses!
  19. Spider n Toby

    Spider n Toby Gold Member

    oh and one thing.. You don't make money in racing, thats for sure! Not at all. ROFL So you can throw that idea out. :) :)

    Yeah it would be practicly impossible. But if it could happen i think it would be a very very good thing. Just like licenses for horses and animals**)
  20. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    i think those that are the pros at racing do make money. sure the backyard owner probably doesnt make a killing though, but there is money to be won and thats more then can be said for other equestrian persuits!
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