thoughts on appaloosas and wb and the crossing of!

Discussion in 'Breeding Horses' started by sandalwoodpark, Nov 28, 2009.

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  1. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    look, this seems quiet rediculous to me. do what you like, if someone wants to breed with your bloke to breed appy W/B well good luck, but you might be the only one wanting to put your "quality W/B" mares to him.
    if i had a quality W/B mare, AND wanting to breed appys for DRESSAGE, i would not be looking at your stallion to do it, which "i think" is what you are asking (god knows what you are trying to point out any more)
    look, in a few years time, when your coloured progeny are out there showing how it is done, you will be laughing all the way to the bank.
    balambi, has done so much research, time, effort and a hell of a lot of work, to produce good solid QUALITY stock, and then use very important and influential semen to produce outstanding QUALITY progeny, that everyday people strive to purchase.
    now isnt that what all this is about ???

    sharaways idea of using harry over your mare, would certainly take you so much closer to your dream of breeding appy WBs and be sooo much quicker also.


    cheers
     
  2. megan

    megan Well-known Member

    i wonder and im no breeder. but this cross breeding happens alot and you i bet there was resitsance at the start i would have to think.

    like clydies to tb
    or arabs to qh's
    or colour warmbloods that are now in fasion

    not sure its my kind on mix but til i see i dont know.

    its also personal tast i suposse as well im not a big warmblood fan LOL but i like big butts lol
     
  3. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Not knowing either stallion (Ben or Harry) what I can say is breeders who use notable and commercial stallions will always find homes for them.....lololol The more commercial the more dollars and the more they are wanted - especially from superior mares. Thats across the board in any breed.

    If a breeder is prepared to breed in any fashion, they might consider doing something like an embryo transfer of something 'commercial' that can offset their breeding outside the square that year? Sell one and keep one?

    I go "commercial" where I can unless something is a far better cross for my program....and to date that has been twice.

    Beks you have made up your mind about what you want to do and who you want to cover with your stallion. Putting up for "opinions" means you are going to get those honest offerings....you might not like what you get back and really does it matter. You have made the plans and short of just a discussion topic there is nothing much to gain....because not everyone is going to agree with your plans/choices and most times people don't like to hear anything other than "yes, yes, yes".

    Your stallion, your mares, your choice.
     
  4. Babe

    Babe Well-known Member

    Sharaway...if I was offered 50k for that mare I wouldve taken it.....you wouldve easily have replaced her 5 times over with that sort of offer.

    Sorry to be blunt, but there are some amazing horses out there...fab breeding and very well put together....already started...I could pick up something amazing for 28k.....already started by an FEI rider, and ready to compete..

    Beks...you obviously wil do watever you want to do with your breeding programme....but when a breeder like Belambi come on here to offer advice I reccommend you stop and take in what he has to say, rather then try and down his breeding programme....gawd knows I am confused by your posts and what you are actually striving for now.
    You have received some fabulous advice.
     
  5. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    Easy call to make Babe when you dont know the horse or us. Needless to say she's not for sale at any price now or in the forseable future.

    Bek's its clear that you think your Stallion is super special, and doubtless he is, but dont expect everyone to agree with you.

    I think that Harry is as a warmblood type and breeder or wb type far superior, and as thats what you are wanting to breed, I personally would not use your Stallion to try to breed that type.

    However I dont own Ben, Dont plan to breed to Ben, or buy any foals by Ben, so my opinion really means squwat lol.

    However you have asked publically what people think of the idea and you have your answers Mate.

    And when you sell one of his foals for a Motza, feel free to call me and rub my nose in it, you know I will only be happy for you any way lol.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 4, 2009
  6. belambi

    belambi Active Member

    No offence at all.. basically, everyone has to start somewhere.
    Your bloodline maywell be significantly better than mine.. and that is absolutly no problem.. you have some lovely horses.. I have had to work with what I have available,,But, there is more to it than that. I think that the fact that I am a professional rider who competes here and overseas quite a bit on these horses actually helps significantly to promote them, and get them taken seriously... Believe me, there are loads of absolute cr@p app wbs around too.
    For me, using the best stallions around, despte the expense involved helps to get the BASE that we all need to start from.
     
  7. alexander

    alexander Well-known Member

    Hi Belambi, do you know if Pepporcorn Park still breed Trak x Appys? They had quite a few out there competing in eventing a few years ago but I can't seem to find any at all nowadays.

    One of the PP bred stallions came over here and was standing in Kalgoorlie, from memory he was by Königsberg (imp) out of one of their Appy mares, he was a lovely horse and I had a mare booked to him but sadly passed away from colic before she was bred.
     
  8. sandalwoodpark

    sandalwoodpark Active Member

    this has gone way off track i by no means am downing belambi and i would listen to all advice given by ben i think wot he has done is great and i only hope one day like i said that i could breed stock like that i have not and would not put his hard work or knowledge or talent down i am nothing compared to him all i was doing is pointing out the points of what he crossed with wot to get harry which is something simular that i would like to do to hopefully get a horse simular to harry sorry if it came across that i was putting anyone down or anyones horses as that was def not hom it was
     
  9. belambi

    belambi Active Member

    Not a problem.. didnt come across that way atall.. The beauty of these forums is people can discuss and compare ideas. All good

    back to our scheduled program ;)
     
  10. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    good on you SWP, in time, i hope you get there, but i think we were only trying to point out that if balambis mare was a stallion (the appy) no one would be rushing out to IMPROVE their WBs. it was BALAMBI'S dream and amazing knowledge that he was able to select a good combination to get HARRY. HARRY is what is promoting appy WB, not the mare.
    even after all said and done, if balambi was not the rider/trainer he is (bloody amazing to watch in action) and have the talent to PROMOTE HARRY, who would have even heard of HARRY ????
    just trying to help you see, that the PERFORMANCE is just as important as breeds, when venturing into new grounds.
    good luck, and i hope you get to fulfil your dreams
    cheers
     
  11. belambi

    belambi Active Member


    Lovely horses, great people.. Spoke with Leonie last year but not really heard much since.
     
  12. sandalwoodpark

    sandalwoodpark Active Member

    1st of all i was not downing belambis breeding program
    2nd i was not asking everyone if i should breed my stallion to a wb mare or if anyone else would breed there mare to him infact this had nothing to do with my stallion or mares if you all go back and read the original post i was asking for ppls opinions on the appys IN wa and the wbs IN wa and wot ppl thought of crossing the 2 together and to see pictures of the cross. yes guys i had made up my mind to do the cross and i was not asking for my stallion to be brought into it or my choice of mares however you all seen fit to get in and critisize my horses and compare him with harry. this was an open thread on opinions and thoughts of both breeds and the crossing of. not a personal sling fight everyone has there own dreams and everyone has there own opinions of what they want to achieve for me being a big comercial appaloosa wb stud is not it it is merely something i would like to try for myself. my main concentration for breeding is for western pleasure which we suceed quite well in. breeding horses is a life long dream and breeding a FEW appy cross wbs is also a long time dream however its not my sole life or career and i will leave that up to the ppl who have dedicated there life to do that, breeding appys is my fun and pleasure and i wont have ppl take that away from me. just like i would not critisize ppl for there own tastes, i am more than happy to hear ppl s opinions on both breeds and there thoughts on crossing the 2 but yous need to stop comparing the stallions and basically you need to leave harry out of it and leave ben out of it its not about them unless of course your comenting on ben as an appy and of harry as a wbx appy
     
  13. sandalwoodpark

    sandalwoodpark Active Member

    it was that stallion that started my dream of and appy wb all those years ago! he was lovely from wot i remember however i was very young and didnt no much about horses back then lol:)*
     
  14. alexander

    alexander Well-known Member

  15. belambi

    belambi Active Member

    Just a brief update.

    Harry is now a gelding, and lives in South Australia.

    Rhubarb is now 14 mnths.. video here

    YouTube - rhubarb 14 months
     
  16. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Something like an Appy over a larger breed like a WB, would, I expect, deliver a lovely big coloured offspring suitable for showing. Provided the mare was of a decent quality and same with the stallion. I believe this type of breeding program has produced some wonderful athletic performers. As evidenced by Ben.....

    *highlighting QUALITY mare and QUALITY stallion*

    Breeders with integrity have been doing this type of cross as well as crossing with TB & of course the QH.

    I have always believed Appys to be a very under-rated breed and I adore their general laid back attitude.

    I do however strongly disagree with breeding an Appy (or any other breed for that matter) over a standardbred mare......I think this constitutes a breeding act of bastardry for both breeds.....who independently have wonderful attributes and definate appeal.

    IMO...being a breeder of the standardbred - they should remain bred to standardbreds.....and the noble Appy should be crossed with breeds that are acceptable to the breed registry.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2010
  17. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    WOW.........look at that extravagant leg action........something worked here - humm what could that be - oh yeah its called "breeder smarts".....lolol ;)
     
  18. biscay

    biscay Well-known Member

    Well, I have read this thread and found it very interesting.

    One of my dearest friends owns an appy/warmblood. He is out of an appy mare, by a pure warmblood stallion. He has beautiful movement and equally as great temperament. ( Mirawee, yes he is registered appy as he has the characteristics being striped hooves, pink spotted skin and well a very large spotted blanket:) and spotty legs hehe hes super cute!).

    He has won supreme of supremes at quite a few shows, because he is beautifully put together and very balanced. He has done elementry/medium dressage. He stands out. He has won hack classes. He can be naughty ! He can be a pain. Well what can I say, he is a horse??? But at end of the day his owner loves him, and so does anyone else around him !!

    I think, the most fundamental thing people forget when breeding sadly, is temperament ! There are many many that are breeding just for colour ( she didnt breed him, she bought him), as it is very very much the fashion at the moment. They breed purely for movement, then whoa and behold, find the horse is yes omg amazing to watch floating across the paddock but holy camoly they can never ride the thing because its movement is way beyond the owners capabilities, so they pay someone else to ride it for them ! With access to so much frozen semen etc, I think it has taken away a lot of basic fundamentals. Good "rideable" movement, with a sound temperament. Lots of flaming flash as pants moving horses out there, that can never go further up the grades because their temperament cant cope with the training.

    I have bred myself a horse out of a very non-fashionable bloodline. But, I loved the mare's bloodlines, and trusted the person who owned her. When she arrived I fell in love. We clicked. Her personality was gorgeous. She was in foal to not-fashionable stallion. The foal has turned out gorgoues. And his temperament I wouldnt swap. I was asked recently - so why on earth would you have crossed a Ludendorf with a Weltmeyer.. thats asking for trouble.. MEH !!! He has the nicest temperaments around, and I have had nothing but joy handling him and teaching him, however, I reserve judgement as I am only just in the process of breaking him in, and I may very well change my mind.

    At end of the day, If you enjoy your horse, and the mare you choose is a quality mare, with a great temperament, and you choose a nice stallion with a good temperament, then why not give it a go. :) Oops I was bored and wrote a novel :)
     
  19. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    *Breathe* *Breathe* *Breathe* *Tolerance for other opinions....and walk away*

    :mad:
     
  20. sandalwoodpark

    sandalwoodpark Active Member

    *highlighting QUALITY mare and QUALITY stallion* EVP not being biast but our stallion is QUALITY..............say no more!
     
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