thoughts on appaloosas and wb and the crossing of!

Discussion in 'Breeding Horses' started by sandalwoodpark, Nov 28, 2009.

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  1. madcow

    madcow Guest

    Genuine question Belambi....I know very little about Appaloosas and thought it was an interesting statement you made. Just wondering WHY your reasonings were?

    Sorry, I didn't think it was unreasonable to 'question', well actually just ask a question about it? See you can cross a TB with a warmblood and still get a registed warmblood. TB's are a 'pure' breed so different kettle of fish. Rules are rules...I accept that...but just wondered why you thought the AAA rules were so right v the American version of the same thing so crazy?

    Dosn't and will never affect me as I don't plan on ever owning anything with spots.....was just wondering.......sorry:(
  2. Bon & Ted

    Bon & Ted Guest

    haha sorry PSO, nothing about her colour, rather her breed, as she wasn't exactly bred for English disciplines being an ASH , no Appy in there LOL. What I was getting at was there is always going to be prejudice in the horse world no matter what sort of breed, colour or sex horse you own, you just make what you want of it and get on and do your thing. :p
  3. Belambi might be able to explain it a bit better, but there is no point in breeding colored (spotty or patchy) horses to a grey or a roan, because the above factors will cover up the color pattern. ;)
    We have a roan stallion, we won't cover appaloosa mares with him for the above reason. But we do cover grey QH mares.
  4. belambi

    belambi Active Member

    Basically, and I appologise if I dont explain this clearly.. but, breeds have traits. And one of the traits of the app is the colour. For this reason, a solid app can only be bred to a colour app. A solid cant be bred to another solid. Part of the breeders 'desire'.. or aim is to keep the colour, so to use grey ..ON PURPOSE... defeats this purpose.. Does this make sense?

    I think its a very fair question.. I hope I have answered it appropriatley.
  5. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    Bek for me its simple mathamatics, stud fee, plus carrying the mare for a year, then weaning the foal, at best you will get a few k for a really nice foal, versus anything I breed from Jaffa, min 10K on the ground.

    Ive been offered 50k for her allready.

    No way in a pink fit would you get offered that for an appy cross, ok YEARS later when it has proven itself in the arena of choice maybe, but not as a foal, and as all breeders know, if you dont sell them as foals, the cost of carrying them on and breaking them in as a rule isnt worth it.

    Average warmblood foal 8-15K

    Average Appy foal $500.00 bucks to $2500.00.

    Searched the latest horse deals for the numbers so I know Im not making it up.

    Why the hell would you bother to breed a commercially non viable foal?

    If you are breeding it for yourself, because you want it, you will have a future for it, go for it, but to think there is a commercially viable market for it, personally I just dont see it. Versus using those WB mares back to desirable proven Warmblood Stallions.
  6. belambi

    belambi Active Member

    please dont presume that you know what you are talking about in relation to the value of these horses, particularly those of us who breed for the overseas market.

  7. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    Feel free to educate me Ben, I would love to know the facts, how many foals you breed, what prices you get for them locally and oversea's exactly how many and at what age where they sold oversea's, remember I am talking newly weaned foals.

    And selling one high price foal versus several that are low priced or not sold until mature, over all still averages down the prices.

    Ben your also well ahead in the breeding game compared to where Bek is at, just starting out in the cross breed game. You have a stallion that is appy warmblood already, you are not trying to breed an appy warmblood.
  8. belambi

    belambi Active Member

    Unfortunately I do not discuss the business side of things publically. However,quality.. not quantity will always get you there.. (and keep the average high.) This year we only had one for sale. (homebred appy)
  9. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    sharaway, having met ben and seen him ride, handle and seen harry in the flesh (he was a little tacker then), ben is an amazing, well accomplished rider/trainer and handler. his stock are well ABOVE most (sorry ben, i still have a soft spot for that stallion duffy) LOL
    ben is the MAN IN DEMAND !!!!!
    oh, and he is one of the nicest and most helpful of people you would ever meet.
    pure charming.
  10. belambi

    belambi Active Member

    Thanks Smash.. the cheques in the mail. ;)

    This isnt personal.. its a great thread, and a very interesting discussion. Sharaway is asking perfectly valid questions.. And , to tell you the truth, we really do need people to ask questions. The simplest answer to most of them is.. "because I want to".. its my project ..doing my thing.

    We currently have apps by these stallions. (not for sale..)

    News -> Breeding -> Hanoverian -> 2003 -> Earl, Best Hanoverian Stallion Born in 1999

    Sandro Hit
    Sandro Hit
    YouTube - Sandro Hit

    Waterview Park - Stedinger

    Gymnastic Star
    Active Stallions
    YouTube - Gymnastik Star
  11. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    cool, *waiting by the mail box* LOL
    some very lovely stallions,
    but sandro hit is my favorite.
    i really look forward to seeing THAT FOAL * LIKE I WANT IT* (wheres the damn photos boy)
    what a very interesting foal season you have had, some seriously amazing and talented stallions.
    look forward to seeing them.
    *hint photos*
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
  12. alexander

    alexander Well-known Member

    I love your Stedinger foal! Belambi, have you got any recent pics of Custard?
  13. Hi All!:)
    I think we should respect other peoples dreams, especially if they are trying to do something different!;), something out of a square.
    Wether they succeed or fail it is not up to us to worry about and question their reasons.
    If the OP wants to crossbreed Apps on WBs, I wish her all the best!**)
    So what if majority of others (including myself*#)) see it not being worthy and don't agree with the idea?;)
    I hope she will have lots of fun trying to put her dream to reality, experimenting and making mistakes is part of learning.
    Go Sandalwood, and do what you want to do!:)* Good luck!
  14. TBPA

    TBPA Well-known Member

    Oh come on Sharraway if you had seriously(serious offer) been offered 50k for that horse you would have sold it, it was only like twelve months ago she was on the market for much less.

    I wouldn't mind a appie warmblood so there is a burgening market for them someone has to be the trailblazer. And there are a hell of a lot of young warmbloods being sold for less than 10k they are often advertised for more but an add is just an add till money changes hands.
  15. sandalwoodpark

    sandalwoodpark Active Member

    thanks guys
    and i can only dream and hope that one day i will be able to be half as good as belambi! but thats alot of of years learning and growing with the breed! and sorry shaz but i wouldnt sell my foal if i was only going to get 2500 for it thats a joke i have not sold one of my babies for under 4500 and even when the market was down i still got 5000 for them which is more than most get for theres i actually remember seeing jaffa advertised and i it was not for double figures i dont doubt that she is worth alot more now as she is pure wb but im not trying to breed something with a dollar value like that nor do i actually want to i want to breed something that has the potential to compete at good solid levels and still be affordable for the average ppl like myself to afford to purchase i am with belambi on quality not quantity i could have bred a 100 mares to ben and no that i would get all colour and sell them all but thats not my aim hence i havent just picked up the first wb mare and bred her i now have 2 nice wb mares that i will breed next season to ben after my 17.2tb has her foal to him so as i get some kind of indecator as to size bone etc im not nieve and im not a gun ho jump in there and see wot i get breeder this has been planned and thought abought and mares chosen carefully and as much as some of you might be suprised there are ppl out there that want them**)
    i have been breeding appys solid for 10 yrs and have tried different combinations there is a lovely member on her with an angalo cross appy that i bred and i believe she is doing really well on him and is fully english!
  16. sandalwoodpark

    sandalwoodpark Active Member

    belambi rhubarb is just stunning!!! and the pole dancing foal that was funny to watch such little characters! you have some lovely horses
  17. Pugsworth

    Pugsworth Well-known Member

    So what happens to the experiments that are not up to srcratch ?
  18. sandalwoodpark

    sandalwoodpark Active Member

    im not experimenting, coliban was merely pointing out a point not that i actually experimenting things are well planned and well thought of and i have not just gone from my own thoughts and opinions to the choices i have made i have asked reputable breeders of wb and vets as to there opinions on the choices of horses i have chosen looking at if all the worst happens it will still be a normal healthy functioning horse
  19. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    Yep she was advertised my much less over 12 months ago, and I pulled her off the market.

    Why would I accept that offer for her now, now that I have her under saddle have a rider for her, she will only improve in value as her training progresses, and I can not replace her if I sell her. I cant breed from her if I sell her.

    So her half sister sold instead.

    Its the classic, no one wants them when you are ready to sell, and when you dont want to sell everyone wants them.

    After the Royal last year I was also offered very good money for Chantelle and she's still at home.

    Ben, there is a clear difference to what you are breeding to what Bek plans to breed. My advise to Bek is USE Harry over those quality mares, THEN you will be breeding something notable, I wouldnt use Beks Stallion as the results will not be the same I am sure.

    Again just my opinion for what little its worth.
  20. sandalwoodpark

    sandalwoodpark Active Member

    thats funny i have looked into the breeding of the mare that is harrys mum and she is appy and fundly enough from the same stud as my young colts mum actually they r related! and harrys dad is a wb so wot is the difference of me using my appy stallion over a nice proven pure wb mare? the result is the same amount of blood of each as harry you guys all seem to be putting ben in the same basket as harry#( he is not not even close but he is in the same basket as harrys mum actually he is proberly better bred lines of appy than her (please no offence belambi) its bens baby that you can then compare to harry and i will be happy for that to happen.
    i dont care wot money gets offered for a horse its only worth that much wen money exchanges hands we just got offered 20000 for ben but said no wot does that matter at the end of the day.
    one of mares is holsteiner and the other hanovarian the hanovarian is more than proved and her direct parents were both imported and i could never in my dreams be able to afford a mare of that quality but we have been fortunate for the owner to let us do this cross she is not silly or a dumb breeder and i garentee she has been in the wb game alot longer than a few others out there
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