thoughts on appaloosas and wb and the crossing of!

Discussion in 'Breeding Horses' started by sandalwoodpark, Nov 28, 2009.

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  1. sandalwoodpark

    sandalwoodpark Active Member

    just want to hear ppls thoughts on the appaloosas we have here in wa and the crossing of wb and appys
    and ppls prefrences and photos guys!!
  2. KPF

    KPF Well-known Member

    I don't mind this guy for a spotty foalie - Friesian x Knabstrupper:D

  3. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    It depends greatly of the Appy and the Warmblood, but if you have a good Warmblood mare why the hell would you breed to an appy, if you want colour there are better ways of getting it, by breeding to a coloured warmblood.

    I dont think that Appy's have anything of value that will add to the mating, its not likely to improve movement, temperment, or ability or value, you would be far better to breed your warmblood mare to the best Warmblood Stalion that you can afford rather than to an appy.

    When you cross quarterhorse anything with warmblood anything you can end up with anything, and very few crosses work, Ive seen some seriously ugly horses from crossing western with warmblood.

    They are very differant types that dont blend well. IMHO
  4. alexander

    alexander Well-known Member

    If the purpose would be to breed a coloured warmblood then I would suggest choosing an appaloosa that does not have quarter horse blood, of has a minimum. I agree with Sharaway, they do not cross well.

    Peppercorn Park in Picton crossed appaloosa with Trakehners for many years with a great deal of success, but their appys had mostly TB/arabian bloodlines.
  5. citygirl

    citygirl Gold Member

    yep theres some VERY nice Mini Appy stallions around { with no "western blood" if its colour you what, try one of those. *#)

    But in all honesty, I love the 'coloured" WB's that we're starting to see more and more of, but you really do need to do your research on what bloodlines cross well.

    Cheers & Best of luck **)

  6. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    When it comes to breeding horses there are a lot of different angles to desirability as an important one. Why create a foal that is born with negatives that could have been prevented by careful mating choices? Surely they have enough obstacles to get over even as pedigreed horses!
    There are some successful people who have bred particular horses for coloured sport horse activities....but these breeders are not one timers or fly by nighters. They have the benefit of years of selective type and ability behind them.

    If I want an omelet I don't use mentioned some things (on the whole) do not mix.......and if it does it takes a master chef!
  7. sandalwoodpark

    sandalwoodpark Active Member

    thanks guys and thanks shaz i knew you would have fun with that one i also agree with the qh/wb cross does not work hence wen we brought our appy boy the idealist we done research into his breeding and he has no qh as we had the intentions of breeding sportaloosas and wb crosses we also managed to find a stallion that throws colour but in saying that our main priority was conformation as we did not want the typical down hill build we wanted something up hill! then his temp which is sweet as!
    he has proven himself in producing horses in both fields he has national champs in western and he now has his first babies out eventing and they r doing really well!
    we have actually put him in to work and a good friend of mine is going to take him out and do a bit of dressage with him as we want to see hm out on the english scene.
    we have a couple of very tall 17.2 hh tb mares that we took a while to select for him in foal this season so we will see wot we get next yr we have also got 2 wb mares lined up for him next season which fundly enuff the wb mare owner asked if i would like to use her mare for this cross we were wrapped
  8. sandalwoodpark

    sandalwoodpark Active Member

    that is a very interesting cross but he has stunning colour!!!
    i wouldnt mid a few like that
  9. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    Bek, there is still the fundimental built down hill, drags its huge hip around via its shoulder versus built uphill and powers from behind lifting its front end, then you have shoulder angle, hock action, I know that you love your new investment to bits, and I know that its a dream of yours.

    But having been there and done that, I have learnt that in order to get one success story, there are many many failures out there, I dont wont to be involved in breeding failures for fashion.
  10. primrosecourt

    primrosecourt Well-known Member

    I have done this as you know using my Trakehner stallion and a lovely riding Appaloosa mare who herself has produced some excelent competiton mounts.

    The resulting foal was stunning,scored 3rd highest (Nationally) at his ASPR tour and was only beaten by German Riding pony x's.
    However on a commercial side (in WA anyway) people dont seem to be able to look past the fact his mum is an Appy albeit a well proven,well conformed one...
    So if its for yourself I'd have no problems doing it again but I'd think twice about doing it for a commercial re sale at the moment until opinions and trends change.
    Perhaps use a Knabstrupper over a WB mare if you want to breed a WB with colour.There are a few now here and a few available via FS.

    I have seen some superb results from Knabstrupper mares being put to stallions such a Sandro Hit etc.......really really smart indeed.Obviously here in australia you would have to do the reverse and use a WB mare x Knabstrupper stallion.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
  11. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    Exactly Prim, if I was wanting the appy patern I would use Knabstrupper before a garden variety appy.

    I have yet to see an appy that I would use over one of my WB mares to breed a foal for myself.

    Knabstrupper however, very very differant story.
  12. sandalwoodpark

    sandalwoodpark Active Member

    that true and im not biast with ben but you have to go back through breeding to look at wot they r like build wise take im a sunday sensation for example she is a pure appy looks like the rest and was on the short list for the athens olympics.
    wot makes a pinto any different to an appy or a paint for that matter yet they r fashionable with the wbs the thing is they r easier to get its hard trying to get a nice appy wb cross as you want a little bit of both i suppose it really depends on the appy if they r very srong in there genes and throw alot like them self then you would not want to cross the 2 as you would end up with a short dunda clumpa! but take jester for example he had the most free moving shoulder action and powerful movement from behind that he has passed on to his tb crosses and if i had of gone dressage with him he would have really excelled in it he has a beautiful extension and the power behind to drive it!
    any horse will work on the front and not drive from behind if they r let do that even the wbs will get lazy on there fronts it takes work unfortunately its alot more noticable and comon in the chunky breeds because they have BIG BUTTS!!!! but if you can cross a nice combination and get the best out of it then you r going to end up with a spectacular coloured competion horse!
    i certainly do not want to breed numbered coloured horses it will be a very select few mares that r going to compilment our stallion so we end up with a correct moving balanced coloured performance horse not a square moving ass dragging lump lol.
    it is not comon for the appy to be out in english for the fact that 1 there has now been put so much qh in them 2 they r seen as western horses and 3 colour until recently has been a put off with judges in the englsih scene!
    and yes your correct i have had this dream as long as you have known me lol but i have not done any crosses as yet because i dont just want to cross and appy with any wb until its the right combination im not rushing my dream and having bad results i would rather wait until i have complementing horses that suit each others conformation so i can get the beautiful colour on a wb horse with a little bit more substance form behind!
    there is no rush.
    my wb mare this season is in foal to a wb stallion that has a nice heavy bone so as hoping on a filly will be an awesome future cross to our stallion we have also been offered the stallions half sister to breed to our stallion which should be and awesome cross
    dreams can happen without disaster if you dont rush and wen we get that ultimate cross we can then only better it!!!
    and shaz i love ya lol
  13. sandalwoodpark

    sandalwoodpark Active Member

    your right that wa is hard and given your mare is so talented but the one thing with wa is that no one wants a solid appy regardless of how it is bred if he came out with a blanket he would have been sold the day he was born! we have very particular ppl here very blind to the talent of the actual horse ppl want to look the best and stand out if it dont have colour who is gonna wanna say its an appy!
    myself personally thinks that the appy if bred correctly with the wb could help a few points of the wb for instance wb r built up hill which i love but they r always lacking on there butt as long as the appy is not going to heavy up the front end and take away the up hill and it adds to its ass how can that be a bad thing
  14. sandalwoodpark

    sandalwoodpark Active Member

    shaz you have to admit if there was that garentee of colour from jester that him and feebee would have been an awesome cross but he was not your usual appy by no means!
  15. primrosecourt

    primrosecourt Well-known Member

    Its sounds by your answer that you already know what you want and how you want to do it!!

    Silhouette is from a line of GP parentage so she is not just a 'fluke' breeding.However I dont know any other Appaloosa line that have this type of quality competition stats in their breeding.You can obcourse take a chance as I did with my other Appy mare and yes in my opinion the cross worked however it is still the opinion for the most that an Appy x WB will always firstly be an APPY and then the WB bit last.It dosnt matter how good it may be its just how the market is at the moment.

    Silhouette is so unique and so well proven you really cant compare much against she is probably one of just a handful of Appys ever to have reached that level in competition.Her colt is lovely and has movement to match any WB colt however he also has his mums conformation and I know that until I can get him undersaddle and out there also proving himself no Dressage person will look twice at him just as they wouldnt with his Dam unless they saw her being ridden!He is a long term prospect which I always new he would be hence why I havent advertsed him.But I do know he'll have his day when he's ready.;)
  16. sandalwoodpark

    sandalwoodpark Active Member

    you r defiinately right anna she is one of a very few and he is really nice also its hard and like any change in breeds it will either work or it wont im not starting up a big comercial appy wb stud lol im happy to have a play with wot i think will work and then get it out there to see if it does work! they r my 2 fav breeds and would love to get a good combination!
    the market is slowly changing as colour is being excepted alot more now than it was before! but as anything dif it takes time and proof they r just as good
  17. primrosecourt

    primrosecourt Well-known Member

    keep missing each other!!......look the way I look at it is this.If they were a needed cross for the 3 Olyimpic disciplines then they would have already been bred and you'd be seeing lots out competiting at all levels.As it stands the general Appy/WB is not a breed most riders go for for a number of reasons and this is why you dont see Anky,Carl Hester,the Beerbums,M,Todd etc on them.....If yo uwant to do it for a nice allrounder then thats fine and I cant see any reason why you shouldnt but I wouldnt be doing it for $$ regardless of colour or not.Generally WB people wont touch it and I'm not sure about AAA people but I'd imagine they were 'purests" too.
  18. alex

    alex Well-known Member

    I showjumped one of GeeJays crosses (built very solid like wb), not sure what he had in him
    (maybe tb/appy/clydy?) and he moved so well and had the biggest jump on him than anything i've ever ridden.
    I wouldn't hesitate to purchase one of her young ones!
    I may also be a bit bias though as their foundation stallion was my C grade SJers sire.
  19. sandalwoodpark

    sandalwoodpark Active Member

    lol we do
    nah im not doing any of it for the dollars lol if i was in it for the money i would not be breeding appys! i would just love to see some nice appys out the competing well in other events and i would love one to compete on myself and i know there are alot of ppl out there that love the coloured event horses etc but the garentee of colour is not often around and lets face who wants to have an appy eventer or dressage horse if it doesnt have spots if ppl r gonna look down on you for the appy breeding lol you atleast want a standout blanket or spots to back u up!!
  20. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    Jester would never breed a Jaffa, no matter how nice Jest was as an appy he like ben, can and never will be a Warmblood.

    Like all youthfull dreams, sometimes when you grow up you find out that reality is very differant.

    I will put Jaff in foal one day, and I will look again to breed for colour, but it will be to a proven performance tested warmblood Stallion.

    Sadly we spent a lot of money to buy that lesson.
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