Teaching a Horse to Lie down

Discussion in 'Training Horses' started by Sweety, Apr 22, 2009.

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  1. Que Sera Sera

    Que Sera Sera Well-known Member

    Agree, but that does not mean that you should necessarily aim for the high peak of a discipline, because that is just unrealistic in the real world. Its not going to happen in 99% of cases. It also negates the enjoyment for those owners who genuinely enjoy the pleasure side of riding, and are not looking at selling their horse, but keeping it as a member of the family for life. This is the difference in seeing horses as a money making excercise and seeing a particular horse as an asset to your life, not matter how much it is worth monetarily.

    Well yes thats true, but if that horse has all the basics, then what is the harm in learning a few different things, that could be seen as ground work, and trust building excercises?

    Hehehe, tell my new horsey that. He knows how to pick his feet up, he still goes through his once a week day of deciding he is not going to pick his feet because that his temperament. Oh eventually he will give it up, but just every now and again, he has got to go "make me :p". I think if I ever sold him, his temperament would also to be to try out any new owner on this point.(not that I have any plans to sell him) Though I must admit there are sometimes, especially if Im in a rush and he has decided that today is the day he is going to do some testing, that I wish I hadnt semi retired my old boy. LOL

    My point is that this taming of temperament will probably never happen with him. Its his nature. Though the time period between these testing days has and will lessen, if he went to someone else he would try it on them. His behaviour with my daughter and I is different, and that is due to her not being consistent with him in discipline. So he walks over her in some aspects, but behaves himself with me in these same aspects.

    Now Im not very experienced in my riding, which I have weekly lessons for, but due to being old, I finding it slower progress than I did when I was a kid. (I was so surprised at the amount of balance I had lost, and thats my pet peeve with myself atm). I dont see the harm in deciding to teach my horse to bow if I so chose. He has the ground work established. His riding is at basic levels, which he gets work on every week with professional guidance. So in these circumstances, I cant see the harm, and it shouldnt be poo pooed as an idea unless the owner is neglecting all that other stuff. And to make the assumption that the owner is ignoring the other aspects is a bit rude.
     
  2. lia4466

    lia4466 New Member

    Percentage of horses that lay down.

    Boy thats a tuff one. LOL

    100% AHAHAHAH

    Boy! getting one to do it on cue. must be a sin:confused:

    By the way, they do the same ramp leap with pigs these days. So there still is a minority that think exploitation of any of our 4 legged freinds is OK. #(

    I Dont!!!!!
     
  3. PPH

    PPH Guest

    But if everything we teach our horse should be for a purpose, what is purposeful to one owner is not to another.
    Teaching a horse to slow down or stop when spur pressure is APPLIED, is one such example. The next owner buys it, but they ride differently and now every time they APPLY spur pressue to go, the horse slows down or stops. They consider it a fault and have to re train the horse.

    And is'nt improving the trust and respect between horse and human and increasing your horsemanship skills a purpose?

    It might not be of value to some but I bet if she accomplishes it, the learning experience and increased bonding between her and her horse will certainly be of value and something she will remember :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2009
  4. QH Rulz

    QH Rulz Well-known Member

    Haha... totally off topic but, yeah try riding two horses, one horse that does and the other that doesnt.... Yep i confuse myself all the time..

    Sorry back to your debate now:))
     
  5. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    I, personally, think that horses should be trained for the greater community and not for the individual. Yes, I understand about exceptional circumstances - but that is also a double-sided coin. Yes, individualize your own horse, but always ensure that the average Joe Bloggs could handle said horse too.

    I know of someone who died quite young and no-one could touch their horse :( He was eventually PTS rather than re-educated. Family decision :(

    I'd also suggest the fairytale Seller who communicates HONESTLY about their horse at Sale. OK BM is this (honest)Seller (TYSM) but I am not sure how many people are honest within their buyer/seller relationship. A. The buyer needs to know what they need - not what they think they need, in a horse. B. The Seller needs to be perceptive enough to know whether their horse (which we assume they know inside & out) is what the buyer needs. If that communication is, and remains,open, the horse should only benefit!

    For the young lass teaching her horse to lie down *on command*, good on you for seeing him as a friend that you can learn with **)
     
  6. PPH

    PPH Guest

    lol QHRulz,
    that would be confusing.

    Ta Wattle but I wanted Ranni to go to a good home, was'nt worried about money. So good to see her out and being used instaed of sitting in the paddock going to waste :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2009
  7. Lin

    Lin Well-known Member

    I always wonder what the motivation is for people wanting to teach their horse tricks, like lie down. There are thousands of ways to develop a bond with your horse, even just riding it does that. So why the need for party tricks?

    Just because it can be done it doesn't mean that you have a fabulous bond with the horse or that you are the next Ray Parelli Brady Jr.
     
  8. Bon & Ted

    Bon & Ted Guest

    How is it any different from teaching your horse how to piaffe?

    I personally have no interest in teaching my horse how to lay down, but if others want to do it then that is their choice. I would hope they wouldn't criticise me for the sort of riding I choose to do.

    I have met a cool little horse that could do a few tricks, little smarty pants he was, but his basic ground manners were atrocious!!!
     
  9. PPH

    PPH Guest

    Exactly my point Lin, it has no value to you but it does to other ppl. Doesn't make one right and one wrong, just a difference in values and what we want out of our horses.
     
  10. Lin

    Lin Well-known Member

    I guess for me, teaching a horse to lay down does not give you any more of a stronger bond with your horse, than say teaching it to follow you at liberty. Woopee doo if you can get the horse to lie down but can't trust it to not nick off into the sunset if you happen to dismount and leave it standing by itself in a 500 acre paddock. There are things I value far more highly in the "bonding stakes" than a horse lying down or bowing even. Perhaps I am more with Coliban in valuing things that are useful and not showy.

    I would be more impressed by the bond you have if the horse trusted you to sit on it while it was already lying down, rather than showing me you could get it to go down in the first place.

    But whatever floats your boat, I guess.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2009
  11. Bon & Ted

    Bon & Ted Guest

    agree with you totally Lin.

    But yeah each to their own.

    I like a functional, EASY and workable relationship with my horses. If I taught them tricks I shudder to think of the consequences.

    Sienna: "No mum I really don't want to go in the float today, I'm going to lay down and play dead on the ramp, and then try to move me" LOL *#)

    Jingles: "huffs and puffs, can't canter on this lead, huff puff, just hang on a sec...takes a bow, well that worked your off my bloody back now!" *#):D

    ahahaha I need to go back to bed :}
     
  12. Wrangler Miss

    Wrangler Miss Well-known Member

    I started reading this thread with much enthusiasm but then came across this post!

    This saddens me as this is the first negative post I have read 'ever' on Stockyard!

    A forum by definition to me is a public meeting or assembly for open discussion. Whether we agree or disagree people should be able to have their own point of view!

    I am surprised mods did not step in on this personal attack!

    I am not sure if I will read on any further or leave this post but I am hoping that members remember the reasons as to why we have all gathered here and continue to be welcoming and informative to all members!
     
  13. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Unfortunately Lin, because horses are owned, their owners can and will do exactly what they want with them.....good, bad and everythiing inbetween.

    We can but comment by sharing our opinion on a public forum.

    I did not make assumptons about the owner.......I wrote that I would prefer a horse know all aspects of horsey stuff other than laying down and thought for the most part, ALL horses should be well accomplished in ALL the things that 99.9% of owner would want. I did make reference to her horse being 4 years old........it was in her original post.

    The fact that you are getting "professional guidence" I would think you horse is benefitting from those lessons as it is building the synergy you expect from your riding.
    The fact you are spending money on professional guidence and regular weekly tuition I think is fantastic....he is being given the opportunity to rise and like it or not, the dollar added value WILL hopefully keep him in homes with far more knowledge/experience and spare him abuse or the scrap heap.

    Thats the way it works. Unfortunately.

    The percentage of "forever homes" is miniscule......otherwise there would be no sales, auctions, or doggers.

    I never use "forever homes" as examples.....they are just too rare compared to the number of horses being bought and sold everyday.

    Yes pigs still do dive.........proves my point that people are still subjecting animals to feats of amazement all in the name of "bonding and trust".

    That it's being done is only testament to what lenghts humans will go to to prove it can be!

    I wonder, if anyone who has taught their horse to lay or bow does it once, proves their "relationship" theory, and never repeats it again?
    I mean wouldn't seeing it once be validation enough?


    :}
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2009
  14. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Thank you Wrangler, that was very nice of you to say.:))
    It was rude and blunt...

    But hey, if you don't like what someone writes in the spirit of 'forum discussion'.....just be rude.

    I'm used to it......lololol;)
     
  15. KC Quarter Horses

    KC Quarter Horses Gold Member

    Sweety I was at a Steve Brady clinic once ( have done a few but this is one accasion) & there was a young girl there doing the clinic, with her dad.
    She had a lovely pinto pony & rode & competed him in lots of disaplines.
    She wanted to teach him to bow on command & eventually lay down.
    Steve spent the time first thing in the morning before the clinic started & at lunch teaching first the horse & then her.
    If it is something you want to do, then I suggest maybe attending a clinic like his would be a good place to start.
    When learning anything, its about feel & timing & you just cant get that over the internet. :)
    You are probably a much better rider than me :), but for me, I have always found it good to watch someone do it first & because horses are living creatures with their own personalities, they are different.....so what works for one, may not another ..... which is probably why I watch alot, practise plenty & seek help, to keep me on the right track :).

    Good luck with whatever you decide to do :)
     
  16. Sweety

    Sweety Active Member

    If you read my original post, Lin, My horse was already lying down. He trusts me enough not to get up and run away as i was approaching from far enough away for him to make that choice if he was going to flee. He was even in a 5 acre paddock with 10 horses in with him at the time!
    This is what sparked the idea!

    I see you were probably generalizing, but i just wanted to state a fact that had already been said in my original post.:)
     
  17. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    hi sweety
    as you can see, many are for and against training "tricks" of this nature (for the record i am against)
    now i am against this (in your situation) because you are only doing it to see if you can (not for any purpose).
    if you were disabled or "NEEDED" a horse to laydown for a specific REASON, then i would be all for it.
    i think (and this is just my opinion) when someone asks how to do something (which means that you dont know how to do it), getting advice of THIS nature is a dangerous thing, and should ONLY be done with a professional by your side.
    people basically DO NOT WISH TO SEE YOU ALL YOUR HORSE HURT and this brings people to post what they have posted, so i hope you dont think people are having a go at you (me included), some of us oldies have seen some horrible injuries to both human and equine.
    it sounds as if you have a great bond already, and are looking for a new direction.
    i dont know if it is riding or what it is you wish to aim for, but wish you luck.
    cheers
     
  18. beks

    beks Well-known Member

    Yes wrangler miss you are right. Many apolagies from an over protective mum.
    All opinions are equal!

    Beks :))
     
  19. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Handing Smash a big slice of chocolate cake!!

    I'll get the telly ready.....All Saints is on a bit later.....we can share the blanky and watch!!

    Cheers
     
  20. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    would of been nice of you beks to apologise to the person you directed this too.
    cheers

    edited to add,
    yum yum choccy cake, thats my fovorite EVP
    i dont have to share it with horsetalk and trojane do i ???
    *carefully hides cake behind my back and leaves the room*
    he he he
     
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