Summer Series Dressage

Discussion in 'Horse Showing and Events' started by Jonty3, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. himitsu

    himitsu Well-known Member

    and this is different to SEC how? SEC has 2 good arenas, but the grass is MUCH worse than many other venues!
  2. Excelsior Centerpiece

    Excelsior Centerpiece Well-known Member

    haha im already planning my new jacket ;) fabric picked, bling buttons picked style picked ;) who said dressage outfits are boring *#)

    now just to make it :)

    weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee another jacket to add to my many!!

    and - im going to say that you lot let me do it!! HA!

    and yes, i have been trying to work out a way to put diamonties through weemans tail, and mane for a while....
  3. InkibahD

    InkibahD Well-known Member

    Cheers bugs, yeah thats what iwas getting at, LOL i often think EFA eventing entries are to much even.. I guess im just a stingy bugger,
    Haha anyway doing unofficial sounds a whole lot better to me and a we bit cheaper to, might go to one of the days i need the dressage practice to get my nerves under control seen as that the element of eventing that stesses me out the most
  4. pso

    pso Gold Member

    LOL- doesnt make sense to me either...dressage events usually run at a loss!
    -eventing dressage judges are lower level (no higher than d level?) so dont need paying as much
    -eventers are VERY good at supplying their own helpers (maybe if dressage charged a $80 helper fee, more people would help out, and costs could drop?)
    -more numbers in eventing...If there were only 50 eventers wanting a show, it would cost more per rider!!!

    cost comparison...will use SEC as example....2 day dressage show and ODE over 2 days...(sponsored rates are 50% off these)

    dressage arenas $15000 vs $940 (no thats not a typo!)
    dressage judges $4000 vs ?
    arena lights $16/hr vs 0
    arena set up/hire- $80 ea
    SJ arena + jumps 0 vs $550
    timers 0 vs $120
    XC course 0 vs $700
    Sj course designer 0 vs ?
    XC course designer 0 vs ?
    Technical delegate 0 vs ?
    vet 0 vs ?
    ambulance 0 vs ?
    Anyone able to fill in the blanks and add extras??:) It adds up quick ;)
  5. buggalugs

    buggalugs Well-known Member

    actually you will find that we commonly have b level judges at eventing ;) and for the wooroloo 3day and brookleigh CIC FEI judges are required- sometimes eastern states judges are flown in...

    not sure why there is such a difference in the arena hire? apart from the indoor, eventing still requires arena equipment etc? and if any other venue is used then the arena costs would be the same...

    the course designer costs are in the thousands - a xc course designer on their own cost several thousand ;) ambulance on course is about $900 (from memory - its been awhile since we broached the ambulance subject) vets vary quite widely in how much they charge to be on course for the xc day/on call...

    i would have thought that many of the costs were relative to the number of competitors/tests being ridden - things like the number of dressage judges and the amount of hours they are required is certainly dependant on this - given that many of the WA eventing events are seeing 200+ competitors therefore tests ridden i would assume that these fees would be higher than your standard dressage day even if judges of a higher level are used... number of arenas required, helpers etc.

    admittedly eventing it is a given if that if you compete then you provide a helper, otherwise a $50 helper fee is paid... costs such as gear checkers and pencillers are very little if nothing...

    just had a quick peak at the SEC web site - not sure where the $15 000 figure for arena hire comes from? surely they would charge the daily rate for the indoor which is $1 400? plus the field which is $1 700 totaling $3 100 plus the actual arena hire which you have indicated is $80 each?
  6. pso

    pso Gold Member

    all fees came off the booking form...x2 for a 2 day show...:)
    indoor arena, international arena, grass arena, polofield, bar area, scorers room, judges room, lunging arenas...It all isnt 'included' have to pay for every little bit that you want to use... (dressage seems to spread itself out a bit :}) Eventing is a lot more 'compact' if that makes sense?

    It was just an example to show why dressage fees are so high...I know eventing costs alot to put together too- probably more so! I was sat at the ODE on the weekend pondering a change of sports!:)
  7. springbok

    springbok Well-known Member

    This isn't much to do with the summer series is it LOL but makes for interesting discussion ...

    I actually think eventing fees are ok given what goes on behind the scenes for events to run ... Which I'm sorry pso is way more than a dressage competition :p . I think it comes down to the fact that there are more eventers/entries to spread set costs (ie. venue hire, sound systems etc.) - eventing is booming in WA! Unfortunately dressage is not right now (and I'm not going to pin point a reason - everything has highs a lows) but it means less competitors to spread those set costs and less people to help = increased costs therefore less people compete etc. and it's a viscous circle.

    I think we're lucky in many ways - I was just reading in H&H (UK) one of the top show jumpers spends 700+ POUNDS (so $1400+) to register his top horses with the BJA (equivilant to EA) each year ... That's before even competing :eek: .

    I don't think (at least I hope this isn't the case!!) entries are raised just to make squillions out of competitions - it's to ensure that the events (and the bodies who run them) don't run at a loss and they can continue to run in the future HOWEVER sometimes more needs to be done to address why entries are low/costs are rising rather than the knee-jerk add $10 on the entry fee as it's only an interim solution and does not do any good for the sport. The entries do seem to be spiraling upwards [in dressage] and IMO it's not a sustainable trend .....
  8. buggalugs

    buggalugs Well-known Member

    i understand that you have to pay for each little bit ;) but in eventing... trust me... we sprawl more! :D think about the hundreds of acres we need for just the xc course - which to add to the cost at the SEC is $1100/day ;) plus the number of arenas we need for 200++ competitors and their horses.

    obviously different to official (both dressage ad eventing) but when we organise events are our club a dressage day costs about 20% of what it costs to run an ODE (gotta love vollies :) ) and the entry fees reflect this...
  9. tammyprez

    tammyprez Well-known Member

    sheesh all this money- mums gonna make me pay now!!!!!!!!!!! lol!!!!!

    i just have to find a way to convince my parents to get me a bling set- browband, jacket, halters, fly veils, chaps(yes i've seen some and theyre AWESOME!!!), joddies, maybe bling on my helmet straps!!! oh and on my joddie clips!!!! --i just remembered- what about on my gloves, cane and might as well get a bling tie/stock just because!!!
  10. Lily

    Lily Well-known Member

    I've got half an idea of where you might be able to find a good part of your shopping list there.... lol.....
  11. primrosecourt

    primrosecourt Well-known Member

    I have always found Australian (WA)Dressage rediculously expensive and thats one big reason why I havent been out for so long.

    I dont quite understand, if a venue does cost so much then why do 'they' continue to hold the comp there.

    Personally for a sport that hasnt got the biggest following compared to other equestrian persuits in Australia, I think Dressage (WA at least) does very little to actually entice new competitiors........Its extremely expensive to get started,extremely expensive to enter,and you dont even win your entry fee back.

    Springbok trust me, its alot cheaper to compete over in the UK even if you have read those figures for BSJA.I was spending (average) 12GBP per test and yes you could win ATLEAST your entry fee back on ever occasion....yes we probably have far more competitiors etc rather like Eventing v Dressage here,however by keeping it so expensive to do just one single poxy test is certainly not going to pull the masses.....why would you and not many can!!

    If it means using cheaper venues for just general competitions then I think that is the way to go because by using places like the SEC and then saying 'well its because the SEC charge XXX for this and XXX for that' isnt going to help promote the sport IMO........and less people means higher charges and its then a vicious circle isnt it.

    I'm buggered, I have a lovely Hanovarian I would dearly like to compete this season but dont have a clue how I will afford to do it even at lower levels (prlim-elem)......:(
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2009
  12. Babe

    Babe Well-known Member

    I totally agree with you Primrose...then add on the huge cost of fuel if you are a country myself..and it becomes a small fortune to travel to perth every month or so to compete
  13. primrosecourt

    primrosecourt Well-known Member

    Yes I had geared myself up to go to this years SS as I am not pregnant,not moving,have no family visiting and have a suitable horse however having read this thread I really couldnt afford to do that nor could I honastly justify it even if I did have the dosh.........its a shame as its 'my' chosen sport but until something changes (or I win the lottery) I am really stuck.#(

    and I only live 45 mins from the SEC so god knows what it must be like for you everytime you want to compete.......
  14. Babe

    Babe Well-known Member

    Absolutely know what youa re saying...I am already saving up my money for next years shows.....but i dont have any kids or mortgage etc...will have to cull the chocky spending to pay for;)

    Hehe yup 4.5 hours away.....tho I have had the most fun this year I must say that...looking forward to next year too
  15. primrosecourt

    primrosecourt Well-known Member

    yes agreed it CAN be good fun indeed but this can be rather dampend by all of the above (and thats before you even get onto the subject of judging here too!)

    I have just remembered the word I was looking for........INCENTIVE or rather Lack Of ....which is such a shame for anyone new (or old like me!!) especially children/teens wanting to compete in Dressage.

    We are just talking about one rider/horse combinations aswell but can you imgine how on earth you'd afford 2,3,4,5+ horses which was quite normal for me along with alot other riders in the UK (and no doubt much of Europe).....sorry to sound so crap but its something I just dont get at all....
  16. Excelsior Centerpiece

    Excelsior Centerpiece Well-known Member

    totally agree!!
    its because of cost that i have decided to postpone entering anthing till next year.. wanted to go to the trasitions day but just cant justify the expense... as a new person starting out its going to cos to me almost 500 before i even get to a show (only slightley less if i do associate- but what the point) then like an average of 50-70 per day ONLY DOING ONE TEST! then like another 30 for each test after..... i dont know why it costs so much... i understand ground hire and judge fees but a hack day is only an average of 40-50 for the whole day... and you have multipule workouts to do...
    so the drive to get out there isnt so high now!! i thought hacking was expensive.. but its actaually the cheapest!

    surely there has to be a better option?? i am not fussed where i ride, as long as there is a decent arena...
  17. Jonty3

    Jonty3 Guest

    As a dressage judge (previously) , we didnt get paid that much to judge riders and all of the pencillers and others involved were just volenteers....and now having hiring arenas for other events I run the cost is up there but you certainly dont need to go to the SEC all the time....

    What I do is pick and choose my shows I go in, making sure that if you qualify for championships that you can afford to go (if you want too), you dont have to go if you dont want too!

    Training days are great to get into dressage, you dont have to go the full monty all the time....may be a better idea to stay home or go to training days until you get to a resonable level and then go and compete....
  18. droverchick

    droverchick New Member

    SS Dressage is run by SEC Events Inc (the event arm of the SEC), to raise funds for the SEC.
    It and the SJ SS were originally started to fill the void of events in January at the SEC and also as a series of INCENTIVE shows for people to get their young horses out, for kids to have a go at dressage and jumping and hopefully go on into junior and EFA (at that time) competition. It was run in a realxed and welcoming atmosphere.......... it now seems to me that the dressage series seems to have now developed into " lets see how much money we can make for the ailing SEC"
  19. pso

    pso Gold Member

    The entry fees for the summer series are actually LOWER than most other dressage shows!!!:)))
    Yes- there is a GSF...that pays for the grounds.. (hell- you have to pay a GSF most places now)
    Yes- a helper fee- just help!!!!!! (again- many shows have this now)
    entry fee is the lowest for the year??
    DDL is standard for all comps (and doesnt apply to unofficial)

    Summer series- dressage AND SJ is still a great way of getting started...And it is a great atmosphere for young people, and 'new' people...And 'new' horses...Its a great kick off for the competition season JMO.

    Yes sure- we all remember when a dressage test cost $10, and we all got prize money...At that time fuel was 60c/L, You could buy a horse property for $200k, and a bale of hay cost $3...:}
    Thats not many years ago....EVERYTHING is more expensive....;)
  20. Double Helix

    Double Helix Well-known Member

    Aside from the SEC, most dressage comps don't charge a helper fee. I know helpers are essential to any sport but when we run a dressage comp at our club most of the helpers are club members. The only people that get paid are the judges and maybe an official scorer. Also, we do not charge a ground service fee or if we do it may be $5.

    So out of any dressage venue the SEC is the most expensive to compete at (I guess because it has a lot more overheads) and if you compete at the lower levels you don't get use of the indoor or international arenas anyway. So less (low level in particular) competitors will go to SEC events and it will lose more money (according to an interview in the Advocate by Hamish Johnston it is already running at a loss of $55,000).

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