Stayers vs Sprint Bred

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by KPF, Jul 30, 2007.

  1. KPF

    KPF Well-known Member

    Ok, I assume I have put this in the right section. Here or the breeding area.:confused:

    I have heard mentioned that when breeding crosses with TB's eg- anglo's, Wb's etc it is better to use the TB's bred as
    Stayers, not sprinters. Can someone please enlighten me with a few more details about this?
    Does the same idea apply for using Tb's over Riding Ponies?

    Why is this so? What's the difference between sprint bred and stayers, why are they more desirable?
    Am I right in assuming that sprinters are shorter through the back and more compact? Shorter pasterns maybe, and stayers longer in build? Or is one a heavier build than the other?

    Would really like to learn a bit more, as I had no idea there was a difference.:confused:

    Cheers:)
     
  2. Jez

    Jez Gold Member

    Yes..a stayer is a longer horse - what I would see in my head as a 'rangy type' of horse...not necessarily longer in pasterns but def. longer back. I can show you pedigrees of one of mine bred to run ten thousand miles and one bred to run 1600 - 2400 - which is what you would call a middle distance runner and the pedigree of a good sprinter.

    Perhaps this recommendation has something to do with the fact that there generally is a temprament difference - a stayer HAS to be the sort of horse that can learn to relax and bide his time - if you look at the first pedigree of the stayer, while bred to run all day he has the brain of a sprinter with ADHD but you will find thats not a blanket "All sprinters are fizzheads, all stayers are dudes" judgement call.

    Stayers ive had have been bigger (taller, lankier) horses but my mid distance horse is built like a bulgarian weightlifter on steroids...people have asked what QH lines he has in him. Some good sprinting mares of recent years here in perth have been tiny dancers like Paris Petard or Beautiful Bonbon.

    When breeding for sprinters you look for 'precocious' lines - early maturers - i have just sent a mare to a stallion to breed an EARLY RUNNING (I hate myself for saying that but its a commercial decision) sprint to mid distance horse.

    So if you were to cross a late maturing breed like a warmblood with a precociously bred sprint bred tbred, you may have a horse whos genetic material is telling him two different things if you get what I mean.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2007
  3. KPF

    KPF Well-known Member

    LOL, Thanks jez.

    So in looking at TB's for breeding pursposes I'd pretty much be able to make a guestimation whether a horse is a stayer or sprint bred based on the build - Tall, long lanky=Stayer. Short, chunky=sprint.... Is that right? or still very difficult without looking at papers. But you wouldn't be able to tell unless it had it written next to the horses (stayer/sprinter) for the average person!

    If thats the reasoning behind it -genetical temperment factor, then I'm guessing that if you did have a sprint bred TB that was a 'laid back' type, hence al crapo racehorse! then temperment factor of choosing stayer over sprint for breeding shouldn't make much of a difference???:confused:

    Hmmm, interesting. I have a mare which we will be breeding, but going on what little info I know about TB racing, she appears to be sprint bred, BUT she is also very laid back, fine build and exactly what we were looking for. I'll see if I can post her pedigree.
    **nope, didn't work**

    Sires Side: Mister Kwila, Kenmare, Kaloman, Relko
    Dams Side: Kings Island, Persian Bold, Stunning
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2007
  4. samm

    samm Gold Member

    Then you get exceptions to every rule.
    We had a 17.2h rangy type tb and the bugger couldnt run any further than 1400.So much for big horses cant sprint!
     
  5. Lin

    Lin Well-known Member

    My racing TB (Count Me In) would have been classified as a middle distance horse by your definition, Jez. He certainly was a level headed dude, but not so quite a brick s***house build (not super fine though either).

    He was born in 1973 (and won the Northam Cup in 1977!). His dam Nunajin had Hyperion lines, the sire (Sir Paramount) was from Britain and had Pardal/Phalaris/Pharos lines. I read somewhere that the Phalaris lines were quite rare in Australia. I know the ill-fated Melbourne Cup runner Dulcify was from the Pardal/Phalaris line as well and is the closest relative to my horse I can find.
     
  6. KPF

    KPF Well-known Member

    :confused: none of these names mean much to me:) .

    I am just interested as I have 'overheard' some people say that they would 'never use a sprint bred mare' to outcross. I just don't understand why not, esp. if its just a generalisation based on temperment, and if you get one that has a good temp, and everything else is good, then why not? Strange.:)
     
  7. Jez

    Jez Gold Member

    YEP Samm exceptions to every rule....Chachi springs to mind at the moment as a sprinter who looks too big to be a sprinter...

    By my boy being mid distance but built like a bulgarian weightlifter I should have clarified that he is a "fine" horse facially for want of a better word but has one helluva getto booty...

    Id say KP its more to do with precociousness than temprament. Particularly when crossing out to something thats late maturing like a warmblood. The temprament thing perhaps would lead some people to say stay away from sprint bred mares if your crossing with riding ponies
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2007
  8. Aussie Cowgirl

    Aussie Cowgirl Active Member

    Most sprinters will get them worked up before the race and run it before they have even touched the grass. Yes their are exceptions but this is a rule of thumb.

    Also if you ever go to buy or look for a sprinter to cross with you can tell as you can fit two, if not more, clenched male fits between their front legs, a stayer is a good clenched fist between the front legs underneath the chest.

    Guyno, won the WA Derby in 2006, he was the cruisiest gelding i have ever met. big new zealend bred boy who has a heart of gold in him. He is a perfect example of a stayer.

    Where as Secret Vault or Royal Harvest are mighty sprinters.

    Hope the theory above helps, the boss swears by it!

    Good Luck
     

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