So?. what is wrong with this yearling? it SHOULD be obvious to all?...

Discussion in 'Breeding Horses' started by manocaaron, Dec 4, 2014.

  1. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Sorry OM post legs/straight from the hocks down have absolutely nothing to do with the genetic condition HyPP.
    HyPP produces excessive muscling via mutated genes. It does not produce what was shown by the pic posted by the OP.

    If you would like to discuss the effects of HyPP I suggest some simple google searches and then follow through with the stated rules from AQHA here and in the USA.

    I get you don't like QH because I and a few others own them, but please can we read some sensible and half relevent replies?
  2. My question is : if certain types of horses are being bred obviously there is a market for them? Who is responsible? the breeder, the buyer or the third party?
    Who needs to be educated, praised or penalised? People who produce, people who buy or people who judge?
  3. old_mate

    old_mate Well-known Member

    The judges, because if these horses did not get placed and get given titles there would be no reason to breed this type of halter horse.
    My husband suggested that some of the judges may have been paid to place.
    Due to the large sums of money that the horses could make with the right titles.
  4. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Gee OM what excuse can you think up to justify the breeding of every other type of crap non registered or non QH horse?

    So who judges all those? Or are you saying that it's only people with registered QH's and who show in halter classes that breed ill conformed horses? Big bow to stretch that one :lol:

    The paying of judges has been around since Adam's pony went to its first show. Did you know that it's also in the dog show world? Probably alpacca's, poultry and cattle too.

    Lets face it OM, again your hatred for anything that looks like someone might be trying to turn a profit makes you moon-crazy. You just can't handle that some people have high aspirations and that they set about becoming a player in the horse world. It wouldn't matter if they were the most ethical, saintly, most likeable person on the planet......if they said they made money from breeding horses, you wouldn't like that one bit.
    This says nothing about those people and everything about you. Shallow, jealous, and consumed with indignation.

    Your posts show you know absolutely nothing about breeding horses, the horse market or what constitutes a good performance horse. In fact I am starting to think that your "horse" experience is the culmination of a few rides on the carosel at your local ag show when you were a kid.

    Please please try and put up thought-provoking and genuinely motivated interesting debate. Blurrrrr. :eek:
  5. old_mate

    old_mate Well-known Member

    :rolleyes:blah,blah, blah.
    Sweeping overly verbose rhetoric, deliberately inflammatory conclusions.
    Only to end up saying that the AHQA Halter Horses are being produced for money and a lot of it.
    Never mind if they are conformational train wreaks cause you can sell them and people will $$$$$$$.
    Yay for market forces.
  6. EVP is right:) at least those halter horses are well looked after.
    How many others are starved to death? Who would raise an issue about their wellfair:eek:?
  7. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    OM you continue to show why your opinions are so well formed and valid.
    Shown by the fact you can't even get the name correct in your ramblings.
    It's AQHA, as in American Quarter Horse Association, not, AHQA, as in American Horse Quarter Association I presume?

    Surely in your picture search you would have seen the breed's name?

    I've seen hundreds of spectacular halter horses here and overseas. I've also seen some shockers. For you to get a well rounded view of the horse world, you'll need to leave your backyard. Have you ever been to an AQHA show? Overseas? In this country or in your State? Didn't think so....:lol:

    Maybe the one you rode on the carosel was a QH. Blurrrr**#)
  8. old_mate

    old_mate Well-known Member

    You have boasted about your american friends but have given no reason as to why the Halter Horses are so different from the working horses. In the 1970s it was possible for the same horse to be a halter, reining and western pleasure champion. Now you need 2 or three different horses.
    That would suggest that the 1970 product was better than today's breeding.
    Rather than stupid personal attacks some fact based answers might make a better form of rebuttal.
  9. wawa85

    wawa85 Guest

    Owning two QH's I much prefer those bred for performance over pure halter/western pleasure. I haven't seen any shockers at any of the shows I've attended but there are certainly shockers out there in any breed. One only has to look at the auction yards to see a lot of these, there are also horses with horrible conformation being sold on many sale sights. Not every horse with poor conformation is unable to perform. I'm also part of the Arabian Horse world and don't like the look or temperaments of those purely bred for halter. Give me a good performance bred all rounder any day :)
  10. nannygoat

    nannygoat Gold Member

    wow what a nasty piece of work this thread is. Boo to you EVP

  11. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    OM as someone who always fires up when there is a deviation I am surprised you have done so much net snooping! :blink:

    The subject has been done over so many times it's more rank than left over turkey on New Year's Eve.

    Every QH devotee on the planet knows what the breed is made up of, how it's judged and how each of the types work into the breed standard. You are not a QH fan. The breed is made up of in hand showing lines and performance lines. Over the years the breed was bred with concentrations of lines that amplified traits and characteristics that each breeder wanted to target.
    Halter, Reining, Cutting, Hunter, ect ect. Some horses can cross discipline and others less so. A cutting winner won't show in halter classes nowadays, could they - possibly? But the breed is divided up into sections where everybody can compete, own or breed for the areas they enjoy.

    Fullstop. No mystery there. Been done for decades. And each sector has their devottes and patrons. Mentioning here that you have none. :lol:

    It's a matter of pure choice what type of discipline a QH owner can enjoy or breed. There is definately money to be made and prizes to be won by each sector. Lots of breeds have in-hand (halter) showing AND performance arenas. Some cross the boundries between and some don't.

    And having American friends isn't a crime is it OM? :lol: And yes again I am blessed to have such people to mentor me and hangout with. I admire there contributions greatly. The father of one of those is in the AmQHA Hall of Fame too. Gee I forgot I got a QH friend in Canada too and her dad is a Hall of Famer too! Sorry Patty* :(

    So OM, you can report back to your little wingpeople. I know as sure as I'm sitting here drinking coffee that your wee fingers are merely the vehicle for other carosel riders.....:hug: Don't fret though. You must love feeling so important. :stir:

    PS: You can google all the differences in the American Quarter Horse. Plus you might find some debate and answers way back on this forum too. They should satisfy your curious mind or whatever it is.
  12. kp

    kp Well-known Member

    Agreed Nannygoat.

  13. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    You poke the lion ahahahaha. :rolleyes:
    Seriously, OM kept returning and asking the same question over and over. To which I replied over and over.

    There are only so many ways someone can say "I know you're not really interested but I'll humour your attempt at baiting just for the fun of it".

    OM and wingpeople are not interested in the QH. Nor the workings of the association. They posted in the hope that someone got offended enough to write that "there is nothing wrong with the picture provided".
    Which of course is utter rubbish because one would hope the pic is doctored because the conformation of the individual is questionable.

    OM does not like my replies. OM does not like anything I have to say - wouldn't matter if I said the world is round.....she would say it's flat just to be seen to be confrontational. It's a way she/he scores brownie points and it's not new. So please don't be alarmed or surprised. I'm certainly not :rolleyes:

    What we are seeing from OM is true to form Claytons opinion. The one you have when you don't know what you are talking about but want to speak and promote nastiness anyway.
  14. kp

    kp Well-known Member

    And so you continue on another person!!!!! Give it up. Agree to disagree. There are a number of large problems when it comes to the breeding of Quarter Horses, amongst other breeds. Maybe not so much in Australia, but certainly in the USA! Even though there are no doubt breeders that are doing the right thing. No need to keep pushing the point. Your losing a lot of respect.
  15. old_mate

    old_mate Well-known Member

    Right at the start I said it was a halter horse and that the conformation of the back legs did not seem to matter too much as far as titles and places went and YOU got up in arms and started the personal insults not me:D
    Then a few posts later you say that leg conformation of the halter horse did not matter all that much.
    You are unable to answer questions so resort to personal insults.
    The degeneration of the Halter Horse has been going on for decades but does that make it right?
    Breeding for a prettier head is one thing but to be breeding for upper body bulk and smaller hooves in a breed that is supposed to be a working breed is crazy.
    But you still have not answered how this type of horse is bettering the breed?
    Seem as how you know so many important people maybe you could ask them ?
  16. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Wrong. I stated a number of times that the pic was most likely doctored and that bad conformation isn't exclusive to the QH breed.

    Wrong. Not once did I say that conformation in the halter QH did not matter.
    Perhaps you could show me where I said that?

    After about the 10th time of responding to your posts it's hardly surprising that someone would get frustrated. Your failure to discuss things rationally would make Jesus himself frustrated.

    For the 11th time. I stated that poor conformation was and still is a concern for all horse breeders. For the 12th time I have stated that the association is continuing to work to make this more relevent to breeders and to educate and test judging at shows.

    Where was upper body bulk or smaller hooves mentioned in all these pages? And where is it written ANYWHERE in the entire universe that the QH is "supposed to be a working breed"?

    Can you show me where the question is stated that 'this type of horse is bettering the breed'? Or where I said that I believe the pic is a true representation of what the breed is or should be? :blink:

    Seriously OM can you keep the goal posts where they are.....:lol: Everytime you start to lose track of the nonsense you post you try and run in and pick them up and start again. ';'

    If you can't read what I write then please go back and read what YOU write.
    I don't drink but boy when I read your posts I wish I did! *#)

    Not once did I defend the conformation in that doctored pic. In fact I said (more than once) that it wasn't something any breeder would be seeking. I said (more than once) that there has been and will continue to be breeders who produce horses with less than good conformation. I said (more than once) that this fact is something the governing body are aware of, and that they are trying to implement strategies in judging by testing and accrediting judges more regularily. I said (more than once) that this is happening here and overseas.
    I even TRIED (more than once) to outline the different sectors in the QH breed and how they all blend to make a very versatile breed suitable for lots of different areas.

    I think most readers have read the replies and guess what - I think they see just how hard it is to offer a sensible verbal exchange to someone who either doesn't get it, doesn't want to get it, or if they do start to get it - move the posts because God forbid they actually get some reality back. :eek:

    You'll learn a whole lot by doing some searches through this forum. It's full of debate on the "who has the best example of the American Quarter Horse".
    When you buy one or breed one perhaps you can enlighten everyone on what you were looking for and whether or not you think you succeeded in your goal.
    Of course that would require spending money, time, more money and more time and then comparing your efforts with those you see on the computer.

    Now that would be an interesting thread! :))
  17. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Agree to disagree? There was never a difference of opinion! I stated that the pic was not indicative of what the majority of halter horse breeders would be breeding for. Where is it that I disagreed?

    Respect? Not sure about losing that but certainly losing my marbles trying to reply over and over again to OM's posts. Replying with the same answer mind you!

    The simple fact is that if I bred Shitland ponies (said tongue in cheek) that OM would have a hate campaign for that breed. If I bred minitures it would be the same. If I said I made money from breeding alpacca's then OM would try and find some terrible phantom unethical issue in them too. It's so transparent that it's almost painful.
    It's pure and simple bloodymindedness, convenient and predictable. And yes it does get frustrating :}

    I'll look forward to the day that OM can put up a picture of the horse she has bred, had trained, sold, competed with or won on. Even a horse that she bought and did those things with would be refreshing. :rolleyes:
  18. old_mate

    old_mate Well-known Member

    Your words from a page three ramble from you
    Conformation is subjective........they don't have to have perfect legs or perfect anything to be a champion....

    The problem that you are having is that I have provided names and titles of horses that have won in the AQHA halter classes over a number of years with conformation as bad as the yearling that started this thread.
    But apart from personal attacks you have not really come back with any examples of horse with good conformation of the back legs winning titles against a super large bodied horse with a poor back end.
    So untill horses with this conformation style
    stop winning AQHA halter classes my statement that the conformation of the back legs is not too much of a problem as far as winning is not too far off the mark.
  19. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    OM. Millions of horses with less than perfect conformation have become champions. Here's are two. Smart Little Lena, Docs Spinifex.
    You'll notice they are performance bred, but their lack of certain good traits didn't stop them becoming champions in arenas where the critera to win is extremely high. This is where it means to be "subjective".

    OM unlike you I don't hold myself up to be a judge or authority on conformation. I know what I like to see in the horses I breed with. Other than that what other people consider to be breed worthy is entirely up to them. I do what I do and the market judges my efforts. So if you have scoured the net and critiqued horses with your "judges eye" can I ask what personal experience did you bring to use for comparisons? Or are you using that "opinion" again? Sorry to tell you but having no experience isn't one of the criteria used to select a horse judge.

    I would never put up pictures of other peoples horses or name them or their studs in an effort to score brownie points. Never have. I think it is a low act.
    That you are comfortable doing so is perfectly fine, if thats what your into.:}

    There are literally millions of horses in the halter world who are good representatives of the breed. There was a QH who won at Congress I think and it wasn't from traditional halter lines, but I read it in passing and as halter isnt something I follow, I dont remember the name.
    Perhaps another QH devottee might?

    Other than that OM its been done and baked to a crisp. I suggest finding a new QH gripe. I'm sure you can find one or one of your wingposters will send you one. As always it's been fun if not hugely entertaining.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2014
  20. old_mate

    old_mate Well-known Member

    You attacked me in this thread, not the other way around.
    I used names and dates of horses who had won halter horse AQHA awards and classes, that all had conformation as bad if not worse than the yearling that started this thread to back up my comment that the conformation did not seem to be a problem with judges.
    You are the one who got your knickers in a knot over it.
    Now your are making out that I hunted you down in this thread with the help of my "wingmen" and that I hate all quarter horses just because you breed them?
    How is life as a megalomaniac?
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014

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