SHARAWAY !!!!!! and all "natural horsemanship" LOVERS

Discussion in 'Training Horses' started by smash, Jun 28, 2010.

  1. Eoroe

    Eoroe Gold Member

    lol - its OKAY....NO body panick - lol Its only vid clips that are that tiny....I can still do stockies - haha!
  2. lollipop

    lollipop Active Member

    Sorry Just Jam, interesting theory but I had to say WTF!!! ;) It seriously comes across like yeah we "are natural" so that makes it all OK how we all treat horses and I don't mean hitting, starving etc. If it was all that simple then every person would be riding around with a smile on their and the horses dial! Unfortunateley you rareley see that what is more it sounds like an excuse for the horse to have to come to the humans level when in actual fact as the human is supposed to be the "superior being" we should be trying to get to their level. The term Natural Horsemanship is just a name made up by clever marketers to make people feel warm and fuzzy plus dolling out lots of cash!! If you go back to the grass roots of the whole "movement" you will find it was never labelled anything but horsemanship!:))
  3. Eoroe

    Eoroe Gold Member

    It think you'll find that If you re-read JJ's post - you'll see that she is on the same page as you.

    A touch sensitive their lollipop?
    It was actually a very articulate and intelligent post from JJ
    Reflect on this - Guns dont kill poeple - people kill people.
    Similar Idea.

    The Modern Fashion era of saying Natural equalls good - and OK is a misleading, fanatical use of the word.

    Natural doesnt mean good - it just MEANS BY, OR IN AN ORIGIONAL EXSISTENCE.

    natural adjective ( NOT ARTIFICIAL ) /ˈn?tʃ.ər.əl//-ɚ-/ adj

    ? as found in nature and not involving anything made or done by people

    1.Existing in or formed by nature. from affectation or contsraint. - on that note...Im sure it took at least 1 thing done by 2 people to create a human.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2010
  4. Eoroe

    Eoroe Gold Member

    On another note - tsunamis' as natural.....and hardly think they are all that great ! lol
  5. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    i think lollipop just did not read it properly or may not have understood what JJ was saying.
    JAM can go real deep sometimes and comes out with pearler of a post. well said JAM,
  6. Merlin

    Merlin Well-known Member

    *ahem* (clears throat)
    Im sorry I thought carrot sticks, rope halters and brass buckle leads were "man made".

    How is that "natural"???
  7. Eoroe

    Eoroe Gold Member

    *sigh*...... (lol)

    the mere action of a human performing an act IS natural - regardlesso of the prop used to implement it. If the human A were forced to perfom the action - by another human B, it would be unnatural for the human A. However - the ACT of forcing HUman A - would be natural for Human B.

    Carrot sticks, rope halters, bridles are man made - and not natural.

    Its about the ACTION, not the tool.

    Now - ANYTHING we do with the horse is natural to us. It is by 'our nature'.

    NOTHING we do to the horse is Natural from their perspective **)

    So -therefore, all horsmansip is natural horsemanship - from the nature of the human, just not from the horses perspective **)
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2010
  8. Anna E

    Anna E Guest

    ^^^^^ What she said. I have nothing helpful to add except that Eoroe I love the way you managed to explain that!!
    Now off to explain to OH that it is NATURAL for me to try and force him into doing the housework...
  9. Mater

    Mater Well-known Member

    It's like the difference between food labelled "certified organic" as opposed to just organic- EVERYthing is organic so the term is redundant.

    Natural is another term that really doesn't mean anything of value. It's just a marketing term given to a style of horsemanship.
  10. ASH lover

    ASH lover Well-known Member

    Here here Eoroe....well said **) summed up pretty much what I was fumbling around about 5 pages ago....LOL:p
  11. JustJam

    JustJam Well-known Member

    Exactly! :D (And that is also a natural thing for humans to do! rofl!)

    Here! Here! To what Eoroe said (and so brilliantly I might add! Particularly the post starting with
    **) :))

    Because it is natural for humans to make them and to use them... and further, all the substances used to make them are natural (even 'man-made' chemicals are 'natural' lol ;)) Although the end-result isn't found 'naturally in nature' they are, none the less, 'natural' :) I am not saying it is good or bad... that is an entirely different subject! lol

    Like Mater said...
    ... Same 'logic' lol **)

    And I would back you 100%! (I wouldn't try it with my OH cos he would naturally argue and not do the housework anyway! rofl :D
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2010
  12. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    yah, gives eoroe a round of applause
    you explained that very well indeed
    *i peeped, sighed and went whatever, then you posted the above and then i squealed with delight*
  13. Cornflower

    Cornflower Well-known Member

    Yikes, hasn't this 'developed'. Reading all this makes me agree with Merlin, the thing he (she? sorry Merlin!) said about over analyzing.
    Why can't we just enjoy (or not) something?

    Natural, not natural, what is, isn't, definitions, philosophies etc...crikey.

    Back to the original topic...when i first saw this, i didn't think 'NH'. I thought classical training. Not that this is, in my opinion, a great example of it.

    I didn't like her being so repetitive and asking for the same movement for so long at a time.
    Whether it's true liberty i'm not sure. Yes, you could argue that he's a stallion, and yes, he's being exuberant. But i'm just not sure.
    What i mean by 'true liberty' is seeing a quite evident partnership and relationship. I want to see pricked ears, kind eyes, and the horse looking to the person, happy to be there. To me, the horse just seems 'well trained'.
  14. Merlin

    Merlin Well-known Member

    Oh yes Cornflower but to truely "learn" anything in life you have to pick the eye's out of everything:)*

    Learning sure has changed a heck of alot since I left school:))

    *continues on her own "natural horsemanship" way**#)
  15. Eoroe

    Eoroe Gold Member

    ah - smeh.....I thought it was actually a discussion/healthy adult debate :)
  16. Cornflower

    Cornflower Well-known Member

    Eoroe, it was interesting reading, and i do understand what's being said, and i certainly don't want to be a 'thread killer' :eek:
    I guess i just read things like this, and think that horse ownership has gotten harder over the years. Maybe 'hard' is the wrong word, because that implies it's tedious and not worth it. Maybe 'complicated' would be better.
    I appreciate all the knowledge that has been gained over the years, but there's a tendancy to feel swamped by everything, instead of more informed.

    For eg, read your sig. 'just go and do it' ;)
  17. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    and there lie's half the problem.
    people find to many excuses to not "go do it" and then wonder why they have a problem
  18. Eoroe

    Eoroe Gold Member

    lol - I think EVERTHING has gotten harder/complicated over the years.....even living.....


    Personally - I dont get swamped.
    I have confidence in that I will always do my best, that I can - at the time. THEN - when I know better, I will do better.

    I am always learning, considering, reflecting. And I always will.
    'The day I stop - is the day I leave the paddock' as Sharaway once said.

    I dont have a problem with it - others who feel the same dont either. It does not strain me, and really, thats all that matters - I have to live with myself :)

    Thinking less about what I do, when, how, where, is the key to me doing what I do well WHEN I AM DOING IT - and I must say when I acheive that, I do it damm well.

    Reflecting on it later - is how I make it work/worth even more **)

    Having the analytical mind, coming from a family of Engineers, scientists, Professors in Theology, Phsycology (SP - I didnt do the degree!), and Biology - I tend to enjoy looking at the wheres and where fores, and particularily the HOWS.

    Thats is the beauty of discussion, it brings broad experience, opinions and knowledge into the topic at hand.

    I am NEVER going to stop discussing, or analysing the arse outta things - as in such refleciton, I learn, and perhaps others do to.

    I beleive the day we go - okay - hands up, too complicated, I must now just do, instead of ask why I do, is the day we loose our soul. It will not happen.

    I must say - It does ...hmmm...erk me....rub me the wrong way when people use the 'too complicated' excuse. Basically its a 'polite' way of saying, I dont want to deal with not being able to have a different perspective. offensive perhaps....hmmm.....bout how I feel about being told to quiet!

    What I referred to in the last few posts of mine was simply fact.

    It wasnt analasys - it wasnt opinion. It was pure and simple fact. I cant take the credit for analysing, complicating, or making it harder - all I did was perhaps educate and englighten.

    The funny thing is - I keep hearing lately, this need for simplicity.

    Getting back to nature.....Nature was never simple anyway - and that is why we have to ability to complicate it.

    Everything I do, and how I approach it is in honesty - it is my lifes career, my passion.

    The Anomoly of the Domestic horse VS Human relationship on Modern society and culture.

    So....there we go.
    Thread dead? I have certainly killed them before with being over complicated - lol
    no? lol here - have one of these.....:)) I am going to!

    ETA - lovin the new thread
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2010
  19. Cornflower

    Cornflower Well-known Member

    Ok, i think there's been a mis-communication. I'm coming from a much more basic place, one of simply going a little off topic. Because i think this discussion could be better served in a thread of it's own, and leave this one to discuss the original video.

    Maybe 'the horse vs human relationship in modern society'? ;)
  20. Eoroe

    Eoroe Gold Member

    lol - oops....sorry - possibly.

    you can pm me if you want...with what you meant. I have a feeling we are on the same page most of time :) I dont actually bite in reality.(hopefuly it doesnt seem that way on forum)

    Im not in for a fight - I just love to 'chew the cud' with people :)

    ...honest...Im tame :)

    I'll step back for now and leave it to the Origional thread direction.....
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2010

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