Save Equus Inc. - Mini breeders & sellers please help

Discussion in 'News Items' started by Saiorse, Dec 11, 2007.

  1. Saiorse

    Saiorse Well-known Member

    I'm seeking some assistance and comments from Mini breeders and marketers on Stockyard.

    I've had several issues to do with Equine Welfare specific to Mini's surface recently. (And spent last night NOT having the romantic dinner with my husband I'd promised; but driving all the way from Serpentine to Chittering to rescue a traumatised colt with a slip-knot around his throat - Thanks to Spotted Monster & Valiente Blanco for help with this one!) Save Equus Inc. attend to these "rescues" and "Interventions, " often when the RSPCA cannot help as they do not have the horsemanship skills we have, or the equine community contacts we have.

    I've been discussing the "state of the nation" in the mini world with some breeders and mini owners, but I'd like as much feedback as possible so that an actual workable plan of action can be formulated to prevent an increase in the types of incidents I'm seeing.

    So your feedback please, as to
    a) How much your vet's charge you for gelding your stock?
    b) How you feel about selling entire males to uneducated people/people with children?
    c) Do you assess the owners for skills, conditions the pony will live in?
    d) In showing, do the geldings get a fair crack at champion?

    I'd also appreciate any extra feedback you'd like to give me, and you can do so anonymously. I appreciate you can guess at the kind of issues I'm encountering from the type of questions I've had to ask, and you are a smart bunch! Lol. However I stress this is not a witch hunt. Save Equus Inc. would like to create the best possible initiatives to reduce the injuries to people and pointless horse fatalities that are currently on the increase. We don't wish to do this by introducing legislation and unworkable regulations. We have some great ideas that will save you breeders and resellers CASH, so please get on board with this one as many other mini enthusiasts & the breed society in WA already have!

    Thanks in advance.

    XJ

    On behalf of Save Equus Inc.
    Save Equus, Horse Rescue organisation based in Perth WA Australia
    save_equus@space.net.au
     
  2. Remaani

    Remaani Guest

    So your feedback please, as to
    a) How much your vet's charge you for gelding your stock?
    b) How you feel about selling entire males to uneducated people/people with children?
    c) Do you assess the owners for skills, conditions the pony will live in?
    d) In showing, do the geldings get a fair crack at champion?



    A. I had a Mini colt gelded 3 wks ago at $200.
    B. NO WAY!!!! People do it, but in most cases its a recipe for disaster.
    C. Thankfully people i've sold my mini's to, are known in the Mini showring, so i know their skills, their property etc.
    D. Yes. I bought a Pixie Valley gelding weanling.... his 1st show he went Supreme Mini against another members stallion (Lindan MG Sirocco), whom is a successful show mini. So yes, geldings can cut it in the ring, but sadly, not many mini geldings are shown.

    Theres alot of colts/stallions out there that are not stallion quality....
     
  3. Saiorse

    Saiorse Well-known Member

    Thanks, great start! Wow, these vets vary wildly in their fees. Hmmm, have come up with a sub-question to part a). Do you care which Vet does the job for you & where? Eg. would you travel farther for a cheaper vet, or do you prefer it done at home whilst on the mare, etc.

    XJ

     
  4. Remaani

    Remaani Guest


    I wont travel, i find it better for my horses to "come to" on their own property..... thankfully my Equine Vet only does property visits & my other vet does travel, from 35kms away.
    Doesnt matter how much gelding costs, i'll pay it as its needed.

    But i figure, if it was cheaper (i know some vets charge around $300/$350), then more breeders would geld?
    Maybe not... but it could be a great incentive.
     
  5. Saiorse

    Saiorse Well-known Member

    A favour...

    I'm busy rehab-ing horses and training volunteers today. Would you guys interested in promoting the Mini breed and assisting Save Equus Inc. with our enquiries and discussions please keep this topic on the first page today so Stockies can participate?

    Thanks in advance, I can't do the bumping thing today. This line of equine welfare does dont deserve to die off due to being lost amongst a myriad of threads, lol.

    XJ
     
  6. miniequine

    miniequine Well-known Member

    I am a breeder and the first question from me is ,do you have another horse on your property? this question is to find out if my horse will have company, second it tells me of their experience with horses or not, I won't sell to some one who is inexperienced and these questions ensures me that it will not go to a backyard as a novelty. further conversation tells me if this person is suitable or not, most breeders I know are responsible but as in all walks of life there are the odd "bad apples" whose only reason for selling is to quit stock they don't want and make a buck or two. Not much help to you but this is my reply . As for gelding, some vets charge a lot others are more reasonable, it pays to ring around. As for gelding classes, some shows do have them but they are not very well attended, if you have any ideas as to how we can make them more popular I am sure the show organizers will be happy to know how.
     
  7. Valiente Blanco

    Valiente Blanco Well-known Member

  8. El_equine

    El_equine Well-known Member

    So your feedback please, as to
    a) How much your vet's charge you for gelding your stock?
    b) How you feel about selling entire males to uneducated people/people with children?
    c) Do you assess the owners for skills, conditions the pony will live in?
    d) In showing, do the geldings get a fair crack at champion?

    I am not a mini breeder but am interested in showing a mini. From what I have found from breeders and enquiries I have made I found the follwoing (I hope it will help you a bit)

    a) $300 done at home or $250 done at vets
    b) 50% of breeders requested I get a colt gelded by a set date as aprt of the sales contract the other 50% couldn't have cared less what I did
    c) again 50% of people wanted to check my knowledge & background and how my other horses/ponies were, the other 50% couldn't care what happened as long as the horse was paid for.
    d) haven't showed mini's yet so I can't really answer this one.
     
  9. Valiente Blanco

    Valiente Blanco Well-known Member

    time for a bump
     
  10. We've discovered this issue with a wide range of breeds. We've had quotes of castration anywhere between $200 and $350 depending on where you go and whether you take the horse there or the Vet comes to you.

    From what we've dealt with so far, not castrating non breeding quality colts is pure laziness on owner's part. Out of the 14 male rescues we've had, 6 were still entire. For these six, ONE was supposed to be for actual breeding ('range' breeder, the Donkey Noel) and the rest were entire purely because their owners hadn't gotten around to it or couldn't be bothered. And guess what? All entire males were unhandled or barely so!!

    Cant really help with Minis specifically because all mini's we've dealt with so far are mares. I would suggest one incentive would be to up prize-money and status of gelding classes (for all breeds, that'd be nice LOL) if possible but that only helps those shown - it doesn't reach the people who have them as pets or are lets-breed-our-mare-coz-she-has-a-uterus people.

    I personally don't think castrations are that expensive - particularly in regards to other vet bills which can be ginormous! I personally think that people who use the price as an excuse are doing just that, looking for a handy excuse. It really isn't THAT expensive and if you can't afford to castrate your colt you shouldn't have horses at all as you clearly cannot afford their correct care.

    When you work out to cure laziness and idiocy let us know and we'll get started! LOL

    Also I would suggest possibly asking Mods to move this thread to Open Discussions as it would likely get more traffic there, and this thread isn't exactly news - its more for discussion/idea purposes :)
     
  11. Spotted Monster

    Spotted Monster Active Member

    Anyone who knows me knows my opinion on the subject of gelding - like any good sportsman should know - Just do it!!!!

    bump bump :)

    oh yes Mod's can this one be moved to open discussions - pretty please???
     
  12. mineees

    mineees Gold Member

    geldings can do as well in the ring as stallions and mares.our gelding has three supremes and multi champions...a mini stallion needs the same handling as a big stallion.so they are not for every one.even a mare or gelding need horse handling.some people think because they are little they dont need normal careing.and the mini also has a different blood count to bigger horses,so can get chills or infections easy...**) :) **)
     
  13. Delrae

    Delrae Gold Member

    So your feedback please, as to
    a) How much your vet's charge you for gelding your stock?
    b) How you feel about selling entire males to uneducated people/people with children?
    c) Do you assess the owners for skills, conditions the pony will live in?
    d) In showing, do the geldings get a fair crack at champion?

    a) not sure yet as we are still new into breeding
    b)Absolutely not, I wont sell any of my mini's to uneducated ppl
    c)I have done that with all my horses so mini's would not be any different
    d)Geldings can easily hold there own, showing our gelding Shrek, was the start of us turning our interests into breeding mini's.

    This has definately given food for thought though that we can promote our gelding's and I would be happy to sponsor a gelding award
    mini breeders on this forum are reputable breeders but unfortunately there are many backyard disreputable ones that breed anything to anything and sell or give away to anyone and they bring a bad name to mini owners.. we have one such breeder close to us
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2007
  14. sierra

    sierra New Member

    A: It costs $ 200 per horse to be gelded where i take my colts. Sumtimes vets will charge a little less if you take a few colts at the same time.
    B: I don't think entire stallions should be sold to people with children unless they are experienced with horses. I geld anything that is going for pets or that i think aren't up to my standards to stay entire.
    C: I like to let all my horses go to good homes though sometimes you can never tell what conditions they are going to. All mine that i have sold have had good homes.
    D: Yes mini geldings do get a fair crack at champions against mares and stallions. I actually had a gelding that was vey successful at doing this. He was never out of a supreme line up from when he was 6 months old til he was two.
     
  15. VIP Girl

    VIP Girl Well-known Member

    a) How much your vet's charge you for gelding your stock?
    b) How you feel about selling entire males to uneducated people/people with children?
    c) Do you assess the owners for skills, conditions the pony will live in?
    d) In showing, do the geldings get a fair crack at champion?

    A) We have only ever bred fillies and 1 colt, but we did have a youngster come to our place to be sold and we had him gelded but that was years ago, so I am not sure what the price is now.
    B) As said before only ever bred fillies & 1 colt. He was sold as an entire to NSW. I won't sell anything entire in WA unless I know for sure who it is going to and I like the home and situation he will be in. Also if the colt is not suitable for breeding then that will be done asap.
    C) I will not sell a horse unless I know where it is going to and I will deliver the horse myself so I can see for myself. The one exception was when I sold my colt to NSW, however I had friends over there go and look at him for me when he arrived.
    D) I have a mini/pinto gelding and a Paint/Pinto Gelding and both have won top of both breeds a few times over. I feel if a judge has the guts to put up a gelding why not. Years ago people gelded their stallions because they were not stallion material, nowadays it is not necessarily like this. They geld today for all kinds of reasons: not suitable for breeding, childs pony, ridden pony etc.

    I feel that people should start taking ownership of horses seriously. There are too many people our there in todays society that have a horse just for the sake of having a horse. We have to remember it is a privilege to own an animal.
     
  16. TEECEE

    TEECEE Active Member

    I purchased a mini stallion 3 years ago as I wanted to show and breed minis. The owners subjected me to intense questioning before they accepted me as a new owner. Although I had been involved with horses for several years, I had no real experience with owing a stallion. Both colts bred by my paint mare had been gelded early as I believed that neither were up to breeding standards. One was gelded on the property and later sold to a young girl as a riding horse. The second was sent to Murdoch (not cheap) and is still with me. I found that gelding is by far the best when the horse is intended for riding. I have learnt a lot about the care and handling of stallions, and the differences in their natures. The main lesson learnt is "NEVER take your mind off what you are doing when handling them". If the circumstances were to change I would not hesitate to geld my stallion.
     
  17. I do think one main reason many don't castrate ponies is because of a common misconception that because they are small, it doesn't matter. I get this form of thinking all the time and it drives me mad!
     
  18. Remaani

    Remaani Guest


    Yep, but i can safely say my Mini Horse stallion is more of a problem than my Part Arab stallion & i think its just "little mans syndrome"...... :D
     
  19. KBS

    KBS Well-known Member

    I have only ever sold one colt, who has gone to a future stud home. He was definately stud quality and the people have had big horses all their life. Everything else has been gelded before it left the property. I don't sell a pony that is to be gelded by the new owner, it never seems to happen.
    As state delegate i quite often get calls fom people who have bought a colt as a pet. So no papers. Sometimes not even branded because the breeder thought they were so bad that they don't even want to admit it is by their stallion. And i am asked to somehow get papers from the breeder so the colt can be used at stud. My answer. GELD HIM.
    It costs me $200 to geld and i travel to get it done. I try to get it done as early as possible, at 8 weeks old usually.
     
  20. Petite Pastures

    Petite Pastures Well-known Member

    a) How much your vet's charge you for gelding your stock?
    b) How you feel about selling entire males to uneducated people/people with children?
    c) Do you assess the owners for skills, conditions the pony will live in?
    d) In showing, do the geldings get a fair crack at champion?


    A, Gelding cost around $350 out here in the sticks. Might be cheaper if I take them to the vet but as he is about 45 min drive I wouldnt want the horse having to drive that far.

    B. Mostly I sell my stock to people I know or at least know of so I dont have to worry that they will be looked after. If the person buying the colt is looking for a breeding stallion then I would leave him entire (if he was good enough) but as it would be my stud name on him I would rather geld him if he wasnt up to scratch. And never sell a stallion for a child to handle, mini stallions have small man syndrome and can be harder to handle then big ones.

    C. If possible I would take the mini to the owners property so I can see for myself that it is safe and that they know what they are doing. I drove a mini years ago out to someones place (which was a big hilly paddock) and just before I went to unload her the new owner said that he would be back from Perth once a fortnight to check on her!!! Trust me that tailgate never touched the ground.

    D. Never shown a gelding as yet, but I believe they have a fair chance at most shows. There are some that they are not allowed to be included in the supreme ring.
     

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