Sand Colic

Discussion in 'Feeding Horses' started by smash, Jun 17, 2008.

  1. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    that is a very good observation, so far, there are a few that have given me there new feed ration, in which they have not coliced, and there is a big difference.

    you might actually take the time and read this thread, you may notice it is FULL of nutrition values and nothing else LOL
    like i said, and i will say it again, it is just an observation, nothing more and nothing less.
    the other factor i thought may have contributed to colic was pellets, but you will see, after a few posts this was dismissed.
    SO FAR, it has been the lack of a balance nutrition diet, and like i said, this could easily change with more info.
    this is not about, who feeds better or anything like that. it is just that by coming together and submitting everything you can, JUST MAYBE, there is a common factor (and maybe not), and if by everyone coming together with their information, it may just may save YOUR ponies life or of some one you know.
    so lets work together and see if there is a common factor in this or not.
    just would like to thank all those that have contributed and submitted there feed rations at the time of colicing. it is VERY MUCH APPRECIATED
    thank you
  2. sil

    sil Gold Member

    I feed all mine a balanced diet and none have had colic.

    The only exception is our Thoroughbred mare. She receives the same ration, but she is an extremely messy eater. She has had colic three times, and all were when she was overdue for her drench, and had managed to eat her dinner spilled onto the ground over a period of several days.

    Since the last colic, I changed to use a fence feed bin with a mesh insert so she can't tip it and have not had a problem. However at the new property it's all electric and I can't use a fence bin, and she has been tipping once again. She was poorly, has been drenched, and is picking up again. I still have to find a solution but in the meantime we use the biggest feeder we can, try to tie it down as much as possible and minimise spillage. I have also doubled her hay intake to try to clear as much sand as possible.
  3. Trojane

    Trojane Well-known Member

    Smash its an interesting thread (thanks!!) but I can't help bucking at your vet line *#) #( Vets in the west have a great course and do a full semester with 6 hrs a week on feed nutrition**) This as well as physiology, anatomy, biochem & micro and more nasty too-hard subjects over 5 yrs to understand basics of digestion:D (this incl lots on horses - not just cats & dogs) Check out on: Unit Welcome page - VET346, Veterinary Nutrition and Animal Toxicology

    I am keen for studies to prevent/treat sand colic - but the magic word is SAND:D Boring old vet advice is feed heaps of hay and stop eating sand!!!

    Colic can be caused by lots of other things too - and so can still happen, but common sand colic is what we're talking of(??) and its SEASONAL and the two big variables here are new grass which leads to picking up sand - and the new grass itself (ie sudden change of diet). Horses vary in gut sensitivity and eating habits so may not all fall to it.

    While I'm being a pest I'll add you need to test large numbers and have a control group. Have you checked if there's the same range of feeds for horses that don't get sand colic?:D

    Anyway good luck and hope you find something interesting :))
  4. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    hi trojane, i welcome your input.
    it use to be a 3 hour course LOL so it is good to know things have changed LOL
    we have done a study on one product, that has NEVER had a colic case yet in 4 years on hundreds of horses.
    this product is not available in WA so i will not say what it is (only via PM)
    there is so many varibles that it is hard to analyse just one thing.
    but if we could make people more aware of just what they are feeding, it may help.
    so far it really does look like, that the horse is just receiving an unbalanced diet.
    we have test feeded quiet a few horse, by directly placing a balanced nutition feed on sand for 10 months to see if they would actually pick up sand. and these horse never received a drench, and not one ate the sand or came down with sand colic (now how they managed to sift the powders out of the sand, i dont know)

    this is why i feel it may be nutrition based, but will need a lot more info to prove that theroy LOL
    i welcome any imput or theroies, so please dont be shy LOL
    thanks once again trojane
  5. astraia

    astraia Guest

    Sil, I have a similar problem with my boy and we live in sand country (aka Wanneroo). I have a HUGE piece of very frim old carpet that I feed him off out in the paddock. He can spread his hay as far as he likes and most of it stays on the carpet. You just have to sweep it thoroughly every day. You could do the same and place a heavy feed bin right in the middle of the carpet. If your mare spills around it at least she won't be eating it off the sand.

    In response to sand colic in general. I have owned my 18yo SB gelding for around 14 years. He spent the first 7 years in Wanneroo and had approxiamtely 10-15 sand colics in that time (I lost count). Always simple and always recovered quickly. He also started colicking after every preventative drench so we stopped. He was then turned out to pasture for 5 years (while I went to vet school) and he has not had one colic since then. I have recently brought him back to Wanneroo but now have a much better idea about sand colics!! (Have treated plenty as a vet). I try everything to minimise sand intake (ie the carpet idea, stabled on sawdust at night) and feed a minimum of 2% body weight hay (that is around 12kg a day for him). I also spell him out on pasture for 4-5 weeks every 2-3 months to get him off the sand for a while. I don't drench him given his previous colics after being drenched and in my opinion paraffin oil doesn't do a whole lot for shifting sand.
    So far so good! (but that's probably beacuse I can treat him myslef now, he won't get colic again! LOL)

    I think Smash is on to something with the balanced diet idea. Although I do think that sand ingestion is the biggest factor (as pointed out by Trojane) given the seasonal occurence of sand colic.
  6. Trojane

    Trojane Well-known Member

    Hi Smash, that sounds good:)) . Please PM me thanks - I'd like to know about it**) Is the product confidential? You say 10 months - did you cover the change of season-first rains period? I've seen my own horse sift through sand for grain and sift out powders from feed. But it seems harder to avoid sand when eating new grass, which gets pulled up roots and all. They do a bit of flicking but then down the lot. Probably harder sifting if chin hairs shaved for showing.

    Astraia - lucky you being your own vet...Though is it hard treating your own - like drs treating family?? Good idea re carpet. I tried something in my stable but wasn't big enough and the sand just flowed over the top anyway. Now its all lovely sawdust:D
  7. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    hi astria
    now i have to prove it LOL.
    yes i agree with that, but WHY is the digestive system not able to do its job to remove sand? why are they eating SO MUCH sand to cause a such a digestive upset ? this is where i feel an ubalanced diet comes into it.
    would hope you help with your ideas and experiences too PLEASE!!!

    have PMed you, and no this product is NOT CONFIDENTIAL. and yes we covered a few changes of seasons in that time LOL, we did from march through to december, by feeding on sand.
  8. BJ.

    BJ. New Member

    Hi Smash, (??//)
    My horse has not had colic, i thought it might help to have a non colic horses diet. It would be good to to check his diet and see what you think. Can you pm me the info on the feed please. :)

    Bj gets fed,
    Good pasture during the day and ad lib round bale at night. Paddocked full time just different paddocks.

    he also gets
    600g lucerne chaff
    500g allphase pellets
    500g economix
    250g speedibeet
    300g rice bran (thinking of changing to equijewel to add extra vit e)
    salt lick in paddock
    10g msm, 5g glucosamine and 2-3g vit c
    carrots and bread
    he is a 15.3hh tb 18yrs old and 550kg approx has been weighed on a scale about a year ago. he is in light work. he is over weight.

    We live in canberra so have different soils.

    We lost a horse to colic last year but he was a rescue case that was badly fed and looked after previously to us getting him. He also windsucked and had other problems. He was fed a similar diet but greater amounts.
  9. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    Hi BJ,
    Thank you so much for your input.
    Now, I was unable to process the “allphase pellets” as I am having trouble getting the break down of what vit<minerals and trace elements that is in it, sorry

    Msm, glucaosamine and vit C I have also left out (due to they are only fed for a reason *meaning that the horse is being feed that for a problem*)
    And of course a salt lick intake can not be processed LOL
    Due to not being able to process the allpase pallets, I was wondering if you maybe forgot to put down some sort of calcium intake?
    I have the results, but not sure you would like them on here, as they are going to be inaccurate due what I was not able to put in.
    But basically, the only problem I could find is the calcium and phoshourous levels not good (need more calcium )
    Other than that, it is quite a well balanced diet (even with the lack of allphase input) LOL
    I am more than happy to post the results, if you would like them anyway
    Once again, I thank you for your input, it is nice to see a nicely balanced ration, and I thank you for sharing that with me
  10. BJ.

    BJ. New Member

    Hi smash,
    Thanks for looking for me, Allphase is a vit min pellet made by Kentucky Equine Research and they have all the info on the KER website.

    Crude Protein 25%
    Lysine 15g
    Methionine 6g
    Threonine 9g
    Calcium 30g
    Phosphorus 20g
    Sodium 6.4g
    Potassium 13g
    Chloride 10g
    Magnesium 6g
    Zinc* 450mg
    Copper* 170mg
    Selenium 2.3mg
    Iodine* 2mg
    Manganese* 300mg
    Iron* 300mg
    Chromium 5mg
    Cobalt* 1mg
    Vitamin A 42,000IU
    Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) 30mg
    Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) 44mg
    Vitamin B3 (Niacin) 140mg
    Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) 60mg
    Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine) 14mg
    Vitamin B12 (Cyanocabalomin) 140µg
    Vitamin D 4,200IU
    Vitamin E 425IU
    Vitamin K 22mg
    Biotin 0.7mg
    Folic Acid 13mg
    Yeast Culture 10g
    Salt 16g
    Choline 1,760mg
    *includes chelated minerals

    I find it extremely good and our horses thrive on it.
    I like it that i am feeding a pelleted feed but i only need 500g a day.
    Works out the same price as feeding a good vit/min supplement and equiv energy/protein.

    Thanks again
    ps is the feed you were testing available in the ACT area? Can you let me know what it is?:)
  11. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    HI Stockies, to weigh your horse there is a very easy way of doing this, find out the nearest public weigh bridge, drive your rig and float over it empty with out the horse, then go back with the horse loaded.

    Subtract the 2 and you know how much your horse weighs, and no real fuss and a good excuse for float training etc.
  12. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    thank you so much for that BJ,
    i tried googling it but could not get the results.
    i will PM regarding the product.
    thank you so much for that information
  13. Jessica0368

    Jessica0368 Well-known Member

    Hi Smash a very interesting thread wondering if you could analyze my boys feed
    he is 15.2 hands weighs 547kg is on paddock 24/7 and in light work
    he gets once a day hard feed of
    rolled barley 1.3kg
    kind and kool1.2kg
    lucerne 600 grams
    oaten chaff 700grams
    cell provide 60grams
    livamol 100grams
    canola oil 1/2cup
    salt 1 teaspoon

    so far haven't had a problem with colic but looking at what i feed perhaps too much grain he was light in condition and moved to new paddock 6 weeks ago so started feeding above to improve condition and it seems to be working looking forward to your response**)
  14. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    i have PMed you your results.
    lovely balanced diet. congratulations
    thank you for taking the time in measuring your horse and weighing all your products (it can sometimes shock you at how little or how much some things weigh LOL
    have PMed you your results.
    and i congratulate you on two well ballanced feed rations
    thank you all for all your time and running around and supplying me with all your information.
  15. Jessica0368

    Jessica0368 Well-known Member

    Hi smash if you have time we have 2 mini pony's the colt has had 4 bouts of colic in 6 weeks this is the diet he was on at the time
    200gm wheaten chaff
    100gm sweet bulk
    50gms sunflower seed
    1 teaspoon (about 25gms garlic)
    1 teaspoon(about 30 gms) cal/phos
    then in morning get 1kg oaten hay
    they are in a paddock fairly poor more weeds than grass for about 9 hours a day locked away at night for 15 hours
    he is not in work and weighs 117 kg and 2 1/2 years old and is 31 inches tall roughly7.3 hands high

    Our filly has only had 2 bout of colic is on the exact same feed as the colt weighs 106kg is 2 1/2 years old and is 29.5 inches so about 7.1 hands hopefully this is helpfull for your survey of sand colic
    thank you for your help:)*
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2008
  16. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    no worries jess, will do it in the morning for you ok?
    thank you once again for your input
  17. Jessica0368

    Jessica0368 Well-known Member

    yep thats fine no probs :)* thanks again!
  18. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    all done jess,
    have PMed you the results
    thank you once again
  19. Jessica0368

    Jessica0368 Well-known Member

    no probs :)* was very interesting to find out thankyou :D
  20. Faxie

    Faxie Well-known Member

    Hi Smash, i would like to offer my horses diets as well as non-colic cases. 1 is a 12yo 16.2 TB and a 15yo 15.3 arab stocky build, not sure of EXACT weights, something i need to work out!
    For the past 4 years both horses have been on plentiful pasture 24/7 consisting mostly of kikuyu, ryegrasses, clovers, property is mostly clay, but does have some sand. Prior to this property they were kept on sand with very limited grazing. At the sandy property I always fed on rubber matting to limit sand intake and fed plenty of good quality oaten hay. My arab spent 6 years at the sandy property and 4 years on my new place which is mostly clay but does have some sand and has never colicked. My TB 1 year on sand and 4 at my current property and no colic either. Love to hear your thoughts and think it is a very interesting subject you are researching! Thanks!

    Morn: 1 bisc oaten hay
    1 bisc oaten hay
    wheaten chaff - approx 1kg (8 litres)
    lucerne chaff - 400g (approx 5 litres)
    sunflower seeds - 1 cup (110g)
    ½ cup whole oats
    dampened with ACV & water
    supplments -
    Were on Equilibrium recommended dose for pleasure horses, until a week ago, am thinking about switching to the Down to Earth brand Minerals instead.

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