Sand Colic

Discussion in 'Feeding Horses' started by smash, Jun 17, 2008.

  1. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    i wonder if all the stockies that have had horses go down with SAND COLIC or COLIC would post EXACTLY what they were feeding at the time?
    i wonder if there is one product or a single entity that is common.
    it might be interesting to say the least.
    for anyone that does post there daily diet, if you put (??//) in your post, i will do a feed nutrition result on that diet.
    if you dont want a nutrition result, then make sure you dont put (??//) in your post.
    i just wonder if there is a link or something like that.
    cheers
     
  2. Golden Biscuit

    Golden Biscuit Well-known Member

    Oh this sounds interesting, okay bickie had sand colic not to long ago-touch wood hes okay now! (??//)

    he was getting 1.5 scoops of shandy chaff- was changed from oaten chaff not to long before
    1/2 scoop coolmax
    1/2 cup black sunflower seeds
    1 tbsp garlic
    1/2 cup livermol

    And oaten and meadow hay :) and hes on about 2-3 acres :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2008
  3. Remaani

    Remaani Guest

    I had 2 mini mares come down with colic in the same night, at the same time.
    They were in a paddock with no paddock feed, just oaten hay..... with the odd bucket of chaff & lucerne chaff.
    The next morning, mini filly got colicy, she was on both chaffs, Studmaster, Livamol & Energy Gold.
     
  4. pso

    pso Gold Member

    Very good idea smash!**)

    I've not had a colic (that I am aware of;) ) in 12 years....
    I had an insupession (sp?) colic 12 yrs ago, which ended in surgery (horse at time was being fed about 1L of bran a day...I havent fed bran since!)...but no sand found....

    My horses are in sand yards, and sand paddocks...very little grazing...And what they get, they dig thru sand to get.......
    Sounds stupid right?:p
    They get hay as they want it...And are fed mitavite if working, plain pony cubes if they arent...plus 5L of chaff/5L lucerne....They are drenched once a year....

    maybe I've just been lucky?:confused:
     
  5. Heifer

    Heifer Gold Member

    im worried about sand.... im looking at moving agistment to sand and am worried about colic as i've only ever kept horses in the hills...
     
  6. croft

    croft Well-known Member

    I have had 2 mini's with colic,not sand, they WERE getting,

    wheaten and Lucerne chaff , muesli twice a day
    hay once a day
    vit & min supp
     
  7. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    bella
    you will need to give me weight measures not scoops for (??//) so i can work out your daily nutrition.
    keep them comming guys, there maybe a link or a common factor, but will need more posts.
    so far i can see a link, but will need more to see if it is just a few.
    cheers
     
  8. Golden Biscuit

    Golden Biscuit Well-known Member

  9. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    oh bella, you are priceless LOL
    ok, have you got kitchen scales ?
    now i know you are a good girl so the answer will be yes, OK
    put your empty scoop on the scales and wind it back to zero, fill up your scoop with a product and put them back on the scales.
    most will weigh in grams.
    you will notice that the same amount in a scoop will weigh different because of the product in the scoop
    example= 1 scoop of chaff will weigh different to 1 scoop of pellets.
    1 scoop of pellets will weigh different to 1 scoop of oats.
    cheers
     
  10. Golden Biscuit

    Golden Biscuit Well-known Member

    Hehehehe :eek: :p Okay ill do that tomorrow and see hehe thanks smash :D
     
  11. Troppo

    Troppo Well-known Member

    Last year both my mare and gelding got colic one week after another. It followed immediatly after the first seasonal rains, the mare also got colic a couple of months ago, this was at the beginning of the dry season.

    At that time I was feeding per day (going back a while so may be a little wrong);

    Mare
    Between 2 and 4 bikkies of hay
    One 10 litre bucket of chaff
    Half a 10 L bucket of lucerne
    Approx 400gms of Cool Horse & Pony Pellets (not around the second time she got colic)
    Approx 300gms rice bran (she wasn't getting this the second time she got colic but she was getting the same amount of Equibix)
    Equivalent of 1 cup dry weight copra (obviously soaked)
    Recommended daily dose of Equilibrium
    Garlic
    Salt

    Gelding - was on a get fat diet
    4 bikkies of hay
    10 litre bucket of chaff
    1/2 10L bucket of lucerne
    700gms of micronized barley
    700gms of rice bran
    1kg Cool horse & pony cubes
    Equivalent 2 cups dry Weight copra soaked
    Recommended daily dose of Equilibrium
    Garlic
    Salt

    This was split into 2 feeds per day. They also got psyllium husks monthly - and there is lots of pasture

    Now I feed ad lib hay for both

    Mare gets:

    1/2 10 Litre bucket of chaff
    500gms Equibix
    Equivalent of 1/2 cup dry weight copra
    Recommended daily dose of Equilibrium
    Salt

    Gelding
    A bit more chaff than the mare
    1kg of Equibix per day
    Equivalent of 1 1/2 cups dry weight copra
    Equilibrium
    Salt

    He has only just come off lupins (700gms/day) and Economix as he is not in regular work at the moment (decided polocrosse wasn't for him)
     
  12. Touch wood because I've never had a horse colic on me. I have religiously attended our own Horse Health & First Aid Workshops so know how to prevent, diagnose severity & keep a horse going till the Vet arrives and I've helped friends when their horses have colicked but I have never had one go down on me yet so I must be doing something right!
     
  13. Medalleon

    Medalleon New Member

    (??//)

    Hi Smash,

    Being new to Stockyard, I was just wondering what your qualifications are with regards to equine nutrition? I have seen enough posts here and in some other threads to know that your opinions are highly regarded by many members and so I wondered if maybe you are a horsey professional of some type or maybe just born riding a horse?:)

    This is a great idea for a thread, as it is such a heartbreaker for many people to see their beloved horse or pony go down with colic.... I have nearly lost my own mini twice to colic, and he used to have a couple out mild bouts every year until I spoke to a nutritionist rather than just a Vet. Even after drenching in early Autumn and late Winter as a preventative.

    For this exercise, the (Vet advised) feed my boy used to get when he was getting colic was:

    1/2 biscuit lucern hay (not new season, but feed quality)
    500g roughest cut white chaff
    1/2 Recomended dose of Equilibrium

    This was fed morning and night with ad lib meadow hay (which he NEVER touched)
     
  14. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    thanks troppo, that was great info.
    still need a lot more post to see if there is a common eliment, as so far there is, but it is early days yet or posts.
    me myself, absolutely NO QUALIFACATIONS at all, but OH is a equine nutritionist if that helps.
    we are horse feed manufactures, so i try to stay up to date as best i can.
    i am gathering your horse was a fat pony? to be put on a diet like that, and one that was not being ridden AT ALL ????
    how did you get your horse/pony to eat equilibrum like that? was the feed wet down or something?
    now just as a wild guess, i would say your pony/mini weighed 178 kilos ?
    on the above info, and my guess in horses size and weight
    these are the results
    what he was receiving
    DE 1.5 DE 5.7 CP 78.3 Ly 3. Ca 7.9 P 4.3 Mg 1.3 Na .8 k 14.2 Mn 49.8 Zn 36.3 Fe 191.7 Cu 33.9 I .1 Se .2 Co .1515 Vit A 3727.1 Vit D 694.4 Vit E 36 Thi 1.4 Rib 0.9 FA 0
    What he would/should require, for my guess height and weight is
    DE 4.4 DE 44.4 CP 488.4 Ly 21.3 Ca 17.8 P 11.1 Mg 3.1 Na 4.4 K 12 Mn 159.8 Zn 159.8 Fe 199.8 Cu 159.8 Co .4 I .4 Se .4 VitA 7992.1 VitD 3196.8 VitE 319.7 Thi 12. Rib 8. FA 2.2
    As you can see there is quiet a big difference from what he was getting to what he needed to be receiving. you did a wise thing going to see a nutritionist madalleon.
    i hope you boy is all good now
    cheers
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2008
  15. Medalleon

    Medalleon New Member

    Thanks Smash, it's handy to know yours and your OH's background. Guess who I'm gonna call when I have lots of stupid questions?:))

    My little guy is "just" a pet.... by that, I mean he is my entire world! He's approx 37" tall and the Vet at the time estimated 130kg. I have absolutely no pasture, but he runs on the smell of a chaff.

    I used to add Equilibrium to his chaff and dampen with water or maybe a little fresh squeezed lemon juice (he LOVES it!). I believe it's a bit unusual, but he will also lick the vit/mins off my hand.

    This diet was originally recommended because he alternated between founder and colic on everything I tried to give him. He wouldn't eat meadow or oaten hay.... just picked the oats out and pee'd on the rest. Grotty little stallion*#)

    Since speaking to an equine nutritionist about 3 years ago, he hasn't looked even the slightest bit colicy! So I have a lot of respect for the type of work your OH does.... it has kept my little boy happy and healthy and given me peace of mind to boot.
     
  16. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    medalleon
    well thats all that matter, and your nutritionist should be happy with the results also.
    congratulations.
    it is hard, as vets only do 1 lecture on feed nutrition, as they concentrate on the real vet issues LOL so they really are not the best people to ask, it is a bit like asking your feed produce person what to feed your horse LOL LOL
    some vets will specialise on one supject, and they usually will know the ins and outs of that one subject and have a broad knowledge on most other things. that is why you have "specialists" in the vet field.
    take care
     
  17. Caroline

    Caroline Well-known Member

    My Hoover!!

    Great thread Smash!! Well my lovely 5yr buckskin QHX boy is the most obsessive compulsive hoover in the Avon Valley!! He has been a food hog since a weanling. He has lived on bare clay paddocks for his whole life with annual farm spells over winter/spring.

    He has had 3 bouts of sand colic in the past 15 months. He is a very good doer, so he is only on an oaten round roll 24/7 with a Horse Power mineral block. I would term him insulin resistant as he can get real cresty and fat off just hay.

    This horse will continually grub at anything green, and sift the last oat from the sand. He wont eat phsyllium husk and I have tried every trick to reduce his sand intake, bar muzzling.
     
  18. Medalleon

    Medalleon New Member

    Yep, the Vet was wonderful at treating the colic but was a little stumped about how to prevent it in a little horse. Not his fault, just depends upon the experience he had been exposed to during his training and practice. Considering he did a double take when he first saw my stallion, I am guessing he hadn't seen many minis in his time.:D

    I am very keen to see what your outcomes are here, as colic can be such a baffling problem without good understanding of the how's and why's. Thanks again Smash.
     
  19. Noelle

    Noelle Gold Member

    Looking at what some of others feed, I am feeling a bit guilty. My two are on really basic feed.

    Spring - 15 1/2 hh 15 yo appaloosa mare - real good doer, fat and not getting any work at the moment.

    Night - approx 2kg r/c chaff, 3/4 - 1kg lucerne chaff, recommended daily dose of Equimin, salt, 2 - 3 biscuits of oaten hay, guesstimate 2 - 3 kg.

    Morning - 3 - 4 biscuits of oaten hay, guesstimate 3 - 4kg
    (I should buy some weight scales for the stables so I know exactly)

    On grass at night

    Bobby - 16.1 hh 21yo tb gelding - also not getting much work at the moment. He lost weight a few weeks ago (first cool weather and he was unrugged) but when I put him on gumnuts and started rugging him each night and cool days he has picked up well.

    Night - approx 2kg r/c chaff, 3/4 - 1kg lucerne chaff, approx 2kg gumnuts, 2 - 3 biscuits of oaten hay, guesstimate 2 - 3 kg.

    Morning - 3 - 4 biscuits of oaten hay, guesstimate 3 - 4kg

    At the moment on grass at 24/7. At the moment his manure is the way I think it should be. Spring and Bobby usually are on grass at night and in a bush paddock during the day. However, the last few times I did this Bobby scoured, so I have been keeping him on grass and he has been fine.

    They are both getting their pumpkin treat once a week.

    So smash I am keen to hear your analysis and if they are missing out on anything. I was thinking of mineral blocks but I suspect in this weather they would get washed away pretty quickly.
     
  20. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    OK NOELLE
    i estimated that even though your two are different sizes, i have guessed there weight to be around 452 kilos each. so i have done the results off that weight ok.
    this is what there nutrition requirement for a horse weighing approx. 452 kilos
    DM 11.3 DE 113.1 CP 1244.2 Ly 54.3 Ca 45.2 P 28.3 Mg 7.9 Na 11.3 K 30.5 Mn 407.2 Zn 407.2Fe 509. Cu 407.2 Co 1.1 I 1.1 Se 1.1 VitA 20359. VitD 8143.6 VitE 814.4 Th 30.5 Rib 20.4 VitB12 0 FA 5.7

    this is what SPRING is receiving from your diet
    DM 8.1 DE 54.2 CP 634. Ly 14.1 Ca 31.2 P 22.5 Mg 18.3 Na 13.3 K 103.4 Mn 629. Zn 311.9 Fe 2578.8 Cu 100 Co .721 I 0.3 Se 0.6 VitA 116877.4 VitD 9720.9 VitE 504.0 Th 18.9 Rib 12.6 VitB12 0 FA 0
    this is what BOBBYis receiving from your diet
    DM 10.1 DE 74.6 CP 886. Ly 14.1 Ca 51.0 P 35.1 Mg 18.3 Na 13.3 K 396.8 Mn 922.4 Zn 599.9 Fe 2843.4 Cu 236.8 Co 1.405 I 2.4 Se 1.7 VitA 130917.4 VitD 14240.0 VitE 790.2 Th 71.1 Rib 32.4 VitB12 0 FA17.3


    DM = DRY MATTER kgs
    DE = DIGESTABLE ENERGY megajoules
    CP = CRUDE PROTEIN grams
    Ly = LYSINE grams
    Ca = CALCIUM grams
    P = PHOSPHOROUS grams
    Mg = MAGNESIUM grams
    Na = SODIUM grams
    K = POTASSIUM grams
    Mn = MAGANESE milligrams
    Zn = ZINC milligrams
    Fe = IRON milligrams
    Cu = COPPER milligrams
    Co = COBALT milligrams
    I = IODINE milligrams
    Se = SELENIUM milligrams
    Rib = RIBFLAVIN
    Th = THIAMIN
    FA = FOLIC ACID
    VITAMINS ARE MEASURED BY International unites
    International unites 1 (I/u) = 1 over 1 million milligram
    ok i hope that helps
    cheers
    thanks for your time noelle, all this info helps
     

Share This Page