Discussion in 'Problem Horses' started by Ebza, May 19, 2008.

  1. hutchi

    hutchi Well-known Member

    An interesting read though! Glad I read through it.
    Hope all is well with your more now **)
  2. Cheeki

    Cheeki Gold Member

    Wow this is an old thread! But was an interesting read ..

    Horses in water, eggs on head, rolled up newspapers .. My mind is exploding I think o_O

    Hope all is well now :)
  3. alidavanna

    alidavanna New Member

    it is something she has learnt she can do with you whenever she decides she doesnt want to be in a particular situation. i believe it is just behavioural, i dont think its particularly serious, its just that you need to know when and how to catch her before she actually goes up, so yes someone with experience would be helpful. i would kick her hips around BEFORE she has an oppurtunity to go up, so when you are going to stop, or as soon as the other person decides to go off and jump, start circling before she can even get distressed.

    But yes you definitely need to get ontop of the situation asap
  4. sparkie

    sparkie Well-known Member

    i havent yet read through everything and i appologise if something simular like this has been posted.
    alidavanna - i have had a few too many issuse with my boy and rearing was or maybe still one of them from when i very first got him. i understand when you say swing his hips round before he gets the chance but if you have a real quick buaggar like i do that doesnt nessacerily do the trick i found it just created more issues you close one dorr and he opens another. i do agree with the start circling bit before he gets distressed but do it in a educated manner not just a flog off here and there make him think like you are practising your flat work off the leg etc. i found with my boy you need to ask forward yeh...! always think forward if he is moving forward then he cant rear the mistake most people make is forward and hand......THROUGH THAT REIN AT YOUR HORSE...! when you ask for forwardness while a horse is comtemplating reaering etc dont hold his head loose rein otherwise you are creating that rear etc. he has no other way of going but UP. forward forward forward but dont lean forward ride upright not leaning back or forward just ride the way you want him to react. this is my experience and my boy is EXTREMELY quick on his feet and very creative...actually can be VERY DANGEROUS.

    I really hope everything is going well now and hope the rearing is under control. I just wanted to note my point of view.
  5. mzgtr

    mzgtr Well-known Member

    If he rears while trying to get on him. My trainer had a horse that would rear while trying to mount and he would have to get on it by walking next to it and jumping on... after a while of that went to a small circle and then to a halt...
  6. sparkie

    sparkie Well-known Member

    that is a real god idea but of course you wwould need to be very careful that it is only a slow i will have to keep that one in mind so siple so easy. great idea
  7. Shandeh

    Shandeh Well-known Member

    rearing troubles

    it's Shandeh's Mum here.

    I have 20+ years experience have been flattened by a horse rearing and falling over on me. Bad judgement and lack of information caused that one.

    Monty Roberts has a website that has educational videos and one of them deals with the rearing horse. It is brilliant.
    He does join up and follow up with the horse then gets hold of the flywire blinkers that race horses wear. He covers the top half with duct tape and the horse wont go to where it cant see. Therefore it wont rear.

    After getting the horse into the habit of performing with out rearing then slowly a mm at a time reduce the amount of duct tape until it is all gone. Simple fix, no drama. Happy horse and rider.

    The man is so amazing at what he can acheive.

    Using the aversive techniques (newspaper, egg and warm water) only cause more distress and anxiety which is what is causing the rearing in the first place.

    If the problem is caused when the horse wants to go forward toward the other horses. Ask her to stop then before she has a chance to rear ask her to walk forward and praise her for her good behaviour. Devote a ride to doing this. Just asking her to stop then walking forward almost before her hooves have stopped moving forward. So that you ask her to move forward before she moves forward herself.

    Calm and gentle is so much better the agressive and painful for everyone.

    the aggressive painful way (smacking with a whip when the horse doesn't do what you want it to do) resulted in the horse rearing up and over, sandwiching my knee between a rock, a stirrup and a horse and 24 years later I still carry the damage.

    It is a seriously dangerous habit, the horse that squashed me ended up sending a jocket to hospital for months with a smashed pelvis. Yet it is such an easy gentle fix.

    Shandeh's Mum
  8. mzgtr

    mzgtr Well-known Member

    You can also when a horse rears, you get both hands lend forward like if you where going to do a jump and you put both your hands down on either side of the neck and give the horse a few pulls on the bit and as soon as he goes to go back down stop straight away.

    So the pulling will hurt his mouth if he goes up and the reward of him going down is the stopping...
  9. Shandeh

    Shandeh Well-known Member

    The idea isn't to hurt the horse - this causes more distress and anxiety and can result in more/bigger rears. You basically want to make it easier for the horse to do the right thing than the wrong thing - for example if the horse refuses to pick up its feet, take your lead rope and use it like a really short lunge rein, it's hard for horses to work on small circles like that and we usually make Sugar trot on this tiny little circle. She's a gem to pick up her feet once you've done that once or twice, and we haven't had to resort to violence or force to 'make' her do what we want. We just make it easier for her to do as she's asked, and she's so much easier to handle because of it.

    EDIT: This is Shandeh, by the way, not my mum... She decided to make her own account after all.
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2009
  10. sparkie

    sparkie Well-known Member

    hmm i dont think i agree with that one it is too much of a chance for the horse to come up and whack you one in the head and it often happens you are more likely to get a nasty knock ay... forward is my thinking before it even happens of course more to do with it
  11. Shandeh

    Shandeh Well-known Member

    Not only that but mzgtr said the idea was to hurt the horse's mouth - not a good idea as it can actually make the problem worse and can quite easily leave you with a hard mouthed horse. Horses are 'into pressure' animals by nature and a problem rearer that hits its head on something is actually more likely to go up again - higher. Hurting the horse when it isn't doing what you want, as Mum said, is highly likely to cause far worse problems.

    It's a controversial issue, but there are many horses in the world that have issues because of the 'traditional methods' that most horse people use, including unfortunately using the whip as a means of discipline and not as the aid that it is meant to be. A dressage whip is a 'tickler' meant for fine aids, while horses know that a crop can hurt them but used tactfully it is one of the best all-round tools in the rider's arsenal. Both of these, used in discipline to smack the horse, can cause a lot of physical and emotional damage, but most particularly the dressage whip as this can and will cut if used too harshly.

    To be honest I don't know a lot about hacking canes etc as I have never come across one, but I have my fair share of experience with crops and dressage whips and although I have never seen the physical effects of using a whip harshly (not including scars) I can say that I have definitely seen the emotional harm, as I have ridden several horses now that you cannot come near with a whip as it is a trigger of memories of abuse. Some of these horses have incredibly severe phobias of whips and Sugar was definitely one of them when we bought her. Now we are using a dressage whip with plastic bags on the end as a lunge whip and we hope to graduate from that to riding with it again and maybe with a crop in future - even severe phobias can be desensitised. Mum's quarter horse gelding was terrified of plastic bags and no matter how much she tried she could never desensitise him. That said, she has a lot more knowledge on that than she did while Boy was with us and she would probably be able to do it now if he was still alive.

    As I was saying, it's not a good idea to hurt a horse in discipline, though many many people think that this is the only way to teach them right from wrong.

    Mum said that Monty Roberts has a website - it's also possible to join his mailing list, which sends out a newsletter every so often with issues people have been having and his advice on how to solve them, as well as news and where he is going to be in the next however long. I'll get her to forward one of the newsletters to me so that I can join with my email. You can also contact him about any problems you might be having.

    I'm not saying he's the be all and end all of everything but he is a brilliant horseman and he really knows horses. I haven't seen him in action but Mum has and she said he's amazing and is capable of some pretty awesome things in not a hell of a lot of time - who else is capable of backing a horse to saddle and rider (to the point that it isn't bucking at all and working quite happily with someone on its back) within half an hour depending on the horse's handling and temperament? I don't know of anyone, but the horse world (worldwide I mean) is pretty darned huge, so it's entirely possible there are others who are not as well-known. And then of course there are his students (Parelli was one of them, I believe, and he came up with his own methods from what he was taught).

    I'm not sure if it counts as advertising if I post a link to a site that's not mine and that I haven't been asked to advertise for. I might ask a mod about it later.

    OK, so the general gist of this post is that I disapprove of people using violence as discipline and I like the way Monty Roberts works with horses. Thus I guess I am vouching for the way Mum and I handle Sugar and intend to handle my horse when I have one.
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2009
  12. Fire n gold1

    Fire n gold1 Active Member

    they are all good ideas but this thread is really old and the problem isn't really that bad anymore is it ebza??

    knowing as i am with her every week!!!


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