rearing and lashing out at me, help needed

Discussion in 'Problem Horses' started by Joeleen, Sep 10, 2008.

  1. Horsetalk

    Horsetalk Well-known Member

    Yep, no halter or rope needed lol, no tying on in paddock either to feed my horses. :D **) Silly idea really. Each to there own. ;)
     
  2. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    funny enough, you teach your horse how the flag works WITH A HALTER ON first.
    and i am sure they dont get hit with the flag also.
    cheers
     
  3. saltriver

    saltriver Guest

    I guess you could smash,
    But I dont , I teach them the hooking on process with the flag , and they learn from there.

    there is a short podcast on my website of me flagging colts, after there first saddling, its in a group situation (not ideal to explain the use os a flag) but still shows flagging , for those who havent seen or heard of it .

    thanks mods I will get some photos and get you to help me post them
     
  4. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    lol mate, yes i but in this case, with this horse, for the problem it is displaying, would YOU use a flad with a halter to help it understand about the flag?
    cheers
     
  5. saltriver

    saltriver Guest

    na doesnt need a halter, and she knows about the flag .....
    how do i know ?
    because I started her

    just some intangable pressure
     
  6. WITCHERY

    WITCHERY Well-known Member

    where is it on your web site ? I can't seem to find it.


    Also if you started her do you know where this behaviour is coming from and do you think wacking her will solve it ?
     
  7. up4thechase

    up4thechase Active Member

    I just wanted to post something that may or may not be useful, I found it useful in a few situations. I had a horse that started to come in at me on the lunge and for some reason I had my whip on the ground so I must have grew about twice my height and I got a good heap of sand on my boot and I kicked it up at him. He s*** himself and went back on the circle and a few laps in he swung his head in to me with a challenging look and I just dug my toe in the sand and you could see his facial expression change as if to say I won't go there again. Another time I had to get my horse out from a group paddock, which I had never had trouble with before. I got my horse and was leading it back to the gate when the dominant horse came at me with teeth bared, again I kicked up a boot full of dirt at it and I had the end of my 12 foot line ready too but the sand was enough to send it bucking away. Just thought it might be useful if you ever find yourself in a situation. Its not 100% but it can work. Good Luck. Intrigued about the flag thing...
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2008
  8. WITCHERY

    WITCHERY Well-known Member

    Oh wait I just found the flagging video but i still don't get it.
     
  9. saltriver

    saltriver Guest

    just click on the blue saltriver performance horses and should direct you to the site.

    I think the word whacking is ambiguous,

    as i explained to Joeleen, she needs to be assertive in her expression to the horse but if if the horse continues to exude dominance or applys innapropriate pressure to her , she must either :
    1. match that pressure
    2. or get the hell out of there

    so by using a flag it can act as an extention of your arm or even make you seem a little taller, and by getting the horses attention first and having her move away from her,with the flag before she enters the yard , she will be in more control of the situation.

    but certainly if i have a horse looking to be on top of me, I will use the cup of my hand or the back of my fore arm to block a horse , before it ends up on top of me.
    But that is timing and understanding when to use that technique.

    However I do believe if you get a horse to understand the flag and the use of intangiable pressure , you shouldnt have to use the above technique.
     
  10. WITCHERY

    WITCHERY Well-known Member

    It just looks like your chasing them colts around with a flag scaring the crap out of them :confused: I really don't understand it but hey what ever works. If you can get the pictures up do a step by step thingo I would be intrested in some more.

    My next question was this horse rearing and lashing out at you at feed time or any time? If no what were you doing that made the horse more comforable. If yes then why didn't you keep the horse for longer ?
     
  11. saltriver

    saltriver Guest

    witchery
    I guess it could be seen as that, and that is what perception is .

    my understanding of what is happening with those colts are , I am moving them, they are moving away from the pressure of the flag.

    to answer your other q. No the horse wasnt rearing and lashing at feed time.

    I think every one here has offered plenty of solutions to the situation, but what really needs to be established is the cause.

    my understanding is that she is in a yard situation, Joleen has an injury and hasnt been able to ride the horse,she is being fed well and is feeling well.

    so maybe she is just showing some expression of boredom, and probably wishes she was in a big paddock with a mob of horses eating grass and galloping about when she wanted to and rearing and kicking up her heels, having a jolly good time.
    after all she is a a horse.........:D
     
  12. banjo

    banjo Well-known Member

    flags with a thumbs up

    **) i was lucky enough to watch kellie at saltriver breed her stallion the other day to a lovely mare. kellie was able to go into the round yard with the mare who had a halter and rope on and her stallion was so well behaved. he was free and all kellie had was a flag....this horse had a mare in full heat and he was so educated and hooked on to kellie and her flag that he was acually asking permission to begin. i was amazed... *wishes my stallion would do that haha*

    i have a bitey and pushy yearling who i am going to use the flag method on as i have seen the results and they are great.

    also joeleen you sound like a nice and caring person who has given your filly a great start by having kellie start her, chin up and take a breath you'll get there.

    cheers:))
     
  13. GeeJay

    GeeJay Guest

    What would I do ummmmmmmmmm

    Basicly get some respect out of her quick smart before I got hurt, nothing aggressive on my part just bang "pee off".

    For a start I would have my trusty stock whip and I would give it a good crack, not hitting the horse just close enough to scare the crap out of her, one horse I had who had a reputation for this and was destined for the meat works (not by us) shame great horse very smart. He only did it once and next time he got the bucket treatment.

    Recipe 2x 20 ltr white buckets 1 with feed other empty, when horse came at me empty plastic bucket got tossed under his legs so when he kicked bucket made a hell of a racket.

    End result horse got one hell of a fright, bucket 2 got broken horse stood back because bucket 1 was still next to me, emptied bucket one into feed bin put it to the side then gave the horse a pat picked up bucket and walked out horse went to eat feed HAPPY.

    Repeated next feed didn't have to use bucket 2 this time as horse was very smart and end result I stayed safe,horse learnt respect and I kept bucket 2intact:)*

    Janet@)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2008
  14. TB4Me

    TB4Me Well-known Member

    Regardless of the preferred method of dealing with it, it seems that the horse is being aggressive because she can, and somehow needs to be informed that such behaviour isn't what is wanted. There's a big difference between beating up on a horse and one well-timed NO.
    Horses are like kids in a lot of ways, some can be reprimanded using a glare, others will challenge you further ('make me').
    It takes an experienced person to work out the appropriate response to this kind of thing, you might want to have a chat with the breaker.
    Also, a comment regarding how nice natured horses don't necessarily use the pecking order - yes and no.
    In my experience, horses will only share food if they haven't (recently?) been exposed to a situation where it's scarce or only arrives at certain times. My two horses will occasionally share food when there's a really nice hayroll in their paddock, but the rest of the time the dominant one will make sure he eats (and drinks) first, even though they're both well fed.
     
  15. smash

    smash Well-known Member

    sorry TB4ME,

    i should have made myself a little more clear (how unusual of me) LOL
    what i meant was, this pecking order is natural instinct, right?
    their other natural instinct is flight, (another instinct us humans are not to happy with LOL)
    what i was trying to say (and quiet badly) is we try to train these instincts, by replacing them with trust (i supose there is a better word)?
    by trying to imatate an intinct (for now we say pecking order) by putting yourself in the pecking order (hopefully near the top), you are inforcing this instict. so, as soon as they find the "weaker link" (and we will say me, for argument sake), i now have to prove i am not the weakest link.
    now if i did not show how high i was in the pecking order straight away, i now have a BIG struggle to get myself back up as top dog, and this would NEVER HAVE HAPPENED if i was confident with my handling skills.
    now by people telling me to give it a whack, show em whos boss, and all that, is quiet dangerous, as i would be using my FEAR to acheive this. and using FEAR in any situation is just not good.
    i would have to use FEAR to stand my ground because if i was confident, this would never have been an issue in the first place.
    so i would need to find a solution, where i could take the "fear" factor out of my response, and replace it with a "habit".
    now i hope some can see, this is not about "natural" crap, and who is doing the right way or wrong way, it is about giving direction to someone who is not confident YET in dealing with this problem in a safe manner, with her saftey first and foremost.
    joeleen, i hope you get things sorted out, and you feel safe and confident with what ever you decide to do.
    good luck
    cheers
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2008
  16. TB4Me

    TB4Me Well-known Member

    I see your point, it would be pretty cool if everyone had just the right 'feel' and all these types of problems could be nipped in the bud.
    I don't have much of a feel for this kind of stuff, which is why I mostly like dealing with older horses.
    Problem horses are, IMO, like plumbing or electricity - a bit of tinkering is fine but bigger problems are best left to the professionals!
    Hope it all gets sorted out, anyway.
     
  17. simbin

    simbin Gold Member


    When my two big 500kg thoroughbreds are in a paddock together and one goes for the other ones feed they turn around and double barrell kick eachother. There is more pain in that then a smack with a whip I can tell you that right now. That is NATURAL HORSEMANSHIP not waving a 50ft pole with a dangly bit on the end to do whatever you do with them.

    Try having an 18hh 3y/o wb rear up on you, happened to me at an agistment centre I was supervising, you dont have much time to go and grab a "carrot stick".

    I dont remember Joeleen saying she was beating her horse .

    ROFLMAO Just had an image of tiny Joeleen trying to beat one of her horses.
     
  18. saltriver

    saltriver Guest

    That is NATURAL HORSEMANSHIP not waving a 50ft pole with a dangly bit on the end to do whatever you do with them.

    Try having an 18hh 3y/o wb rear up on you, happened to me at an agistment centre I was supervising, you dont have much time to go and grab a "carrot stick".

    QUOTE]




    Simbin,
    A horsemanship flag is not a 50ft pole with a dangly bit on the end of it,

    you can actually purchase them as horsemanship tool.
    the flag is a useful piece of equipment when working with horses it is approx the same length as a dressage whip, and the dangly bit is a soft peice of cloth .

    andif you know you have a problem horse to work with , you take the flag with you.
    this is called preperation......:D
     
  19. jonty

    jonty Well-known Member

    I completely agree with doing what you did, I also had the same issue many years ago but mine was ALOT bigger (weight and height wise) to do the touchy feely thing....and as the years go on we have fights about things, sometimes he wins and sometimes I win....its like a partnership and relationship its all give and take!

    Good on you love, im proud of you!
     
  20. Karijini

    Karijini Well-known Member

    Well said Geejay & Sil! And I'm with you Sharaway & Squirty :)*

    Sorry, no touchie feelie for me either. If either of my horses ever got out of their boxes, they would be put back in immediately. I demand respect at feed time. Horses are too big and powerful for me to put myself at risk and I simply won't accept bad manners.

    Don't stress Joeleen, the people that know you, know you are a good horse owner, & everything will be sorted soon anyway **) Hang in there darl!
     

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