Problems that Ex-Racers Have???

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by Caroline, May 16, 2008.

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  1. Rainmaker

    Rainmaker Well-known Member

    I don't really have much of an opinion on racing, I try to stay neutral on the whole racing issue as I do not know enough about it!

    The lady who I adgist with and who gave me my current horse has delt with OTTTB's most of her life, when she wants a new horse she calls up her friend in the industry and asks which horses would be good for what she wants! I should really ask her to post her experiences but I know she is far too busy so I will do what I can.

    I know for a fact that most of her x gallopers have had some sort of issue when she got them but then nothing that with good training, time and perseverance she has not been able to work through. Some have obviously taken longer to get where they are now but they got there which is the main thing. Some issues for example: The grey she used to have had a shocking habit of rearing whenever she would go to get on him. He was used to be mounted on the move and refused to stand still whenever she wanted to mount so when asked to stop and wait...he would go up! Another one: Her current beautiful black gelding she has had for 4 or so years can be a bit of a fruit loop at times!! ha I think he was born like that tho lol but surely the highly strung racing life would not have helped this mentality! anyway he has come along in leaps and bounds and slowly is becoming a lovely dressage horse. She has preserved with him as he has the most amazing movement otherwise she may have say no thanks! He also has chips in his knee so can never jump, I presume that this is probably from his knees buckling from being raced too young.
     
  2. PINTO1980

    PINTO1980 Gold Member

    I dont own a TB or will never own a TB..Not my chosen Breed...

    Just wanted to say...

    Tain....LOVELY mare.**)
     
  3. xenophon

    xenophon Guest

    why are they worth a fortune ?

    because humans made it that way

    do they need more care or do we think they do?

    i am sure if you asked a horse it would rather be in a paddock hooning around being a horse because thats what horses do that is what they are .:)

    and if race horses were allowed to be a horses i am sure there would be less problems .

    horses being boxed are only a small part of the problems us humans create ,

    I am human and i am aware of the problems i create with my horses and i have 32 of them.
    :))
     
  4. Ace

    Ace Well-known Member

     
  5. Shiobhan

    Shiobhan Well-known Member

    Boxing/stabling horses is basically a pre requisite to get them to the track. Yes horses can live in paddocks and still train (I do it and do it well) but when trainers have more horses not everyone can spare the land for half acre with shelter to train from some trainers have over 200 horses in work around Perth. Smaller trainers can manage it has been shown to work, even on TV there was a trainer over east who only lunged his horses and won races but IMO don't like lunging to much on a tight circle.

    Keeping them stable is still not 100% guarantee it will make it to the track could cast it self or kick the wall. But it increases the chance of them making it there. Putting horses in acreage to train from takes time for the horses to get use to. Epically if you train more than one from a paddock, you run the risk of horses getting hurt in a fight over herd dynamics to be the top dog. Which can be costly to both horse and owner/trainer. It can take 20mins to sort it out or weeks if you have 2 rather dominate horses.

    The other thing to consider is horses in paddock can use more energy which while your not there you cant control if they have a canter or gallop for 5-10 mins playing. You lose low amounts of weight and stored energy which takes more feed and time to recover. But if they play hard on a regular basis will be hard to monitor and try to keep the balance of more feeding and work program.

    Personal I have 1 horse paddocked due to location and size of my block 7 horses 6 stables makes it hard lol. I rotate the horse that gets the day and night out, then change horse etc I would have more out if I had more paddocks but I only have 3 one is grass and cant get hammered by leaving something on it for more than a few hours. The other 2 dirt yards and I need to rotate those as is when doing yards. Last year I had much more room on another block of land. 2 horses lived out permanently, and 3 others were out all day locked up at night. Its personal preference but I think bigger trainers simply do not have the room to paddock horses to train from.
     
  6. Jez

    Jez Gold Member

    Just to further expand on the early/late maturing question...and to answer the question of by who's definition is a horse ready to race at 2 years old...most of the time, the horse tells its owner/trainer that.
    As pointed out in the other thread, this is a very tightly regulated industry were talking about here. There is always at least one vet oncourse - including in the mornings at trackwork. To renew my horses insurance, question number 1 is - "Has the horse been seen by a vet in the last 12 months". Turf club vets arent stupid - if they see a horse obviously weak in conformation they will examine it. They are bound by law to report their findings to the stewards. Trainer is then advised by stewards to send the horse for a spell or Trainer advises stewards he/she will send the horse for a spell. Its peoples professional credibility on the line here too.
    How does a horse tell YOU hes not ready? quite simple really...he sleeps a lot. If i use my fella racing atm as an example he was given the nickname "Wake up Jeff" because of his continual habit of sleeping all day when out growing on. I admit i found it hugely frustrating - i was ready to roll, he wasnt, and no matter HOW MUCH i joked around with my trainer about well if we got him up and woke him up from his kip he MIGHT be ready i would get the same answer .... "While hes sleeping, hes growing, wait another 6 months". The vet who lives at the place where he spelled would say the same thing.."let him sleep, the more time he spends lying down sunbaking, the more his bones are developing, he will wake up in time"..
    I couldve gone to another trainer and insisted he be put into work. Given that my trainer is a third generation trainer and former jockey (5 generations of jockeys in the family now) I thought this bloke might actually have a bit more of an idea than I have. So, I sucked it up, kept paying out money every month for a sleeping horse.
    Hes a 4yo rising 5. Hes had a grand total of 11 starts...the wednesday race his eleventh start after yet another cycle of spelling. In the last 28 week spell - he grew a hand. Hes ready now. Hes reached maturity. At bloody last!.
    Again we come back to the argument of boxing/stabling. Id love to know what percentage of performance and pleasure horses are worked daily then taken for a walk around the neighbourhood in the afternoon to keep them mentally fresh. If he was in a paddock i wouldnt be paying for someone to clean his poo three times a day. If anyone with a horse in a paddock goes out three times a day poo hunting, id love to hear about it.
    Xenophon you say theyre worth money because we make them worth money. If that argument is going to hold any logic...lets make all horses for all disciplines including kids ponies absolutely free. No one should pay a cent for a horse at all. THAT would further the cause of equine wellbeing??? :confused:
    As Tain has pointed out, only one in ten who trial will make it to a race. A lot only ever race once. Lets look further at the ones who dont even make it to trial for a multitude of reasons.
    One night when im bored i might sit and read through the entire problem horse section and pm every poster and find out if their horse has ever seen a racetrack. We might find some interesting stats out of stockies alone.
    To people like Morris who acknowledge the problems are both horse and human, hats off to you, your post made me smile at how willing you are to just enjoy being around your horse even if the riding isnt coming together just yet. In time, im sure it will. By sitting watching her, and her watching you, it seems your building a lovely bond.
     
  7. LOL my fella was a good OTTB and he:

    - was TERRIFIED of minis! No matter what you did you couldn't get a single scrap of sense out of him when he saw a mini, all he did was try to bolt, crab-step, jig jog, canter on the spot - you name it.

    - Leaned like an express train on my hands when I first got him

    - Was quite stiff going right and wouldn't flex well at all

    That was pretty much it. Other tbs OTT I have worked with have:

    - Had an issue with people mounting up
    - Very difficult to floatload
    - Head shakers
    - stable vices like weaving or windsucking
    - Could NOT understand how to relax with a rider up LOL
    - one was very spooky at every-day stuff that she just hadn't been exposed to in racing
    - Snatching the bit
    - Had one or two with shocking ground manners, they'd run right over the top of you
    - And a couple that were just hot headed, hyperactive (even OFF race feed) and the type that give the tb its reputation hehe

    Oh and of course a couple that flipped out the first time they felt leg. Worked with one mare once that had a heart attack poor love, she had NO idea what was going on as nobody had ever ridden her with longer stirrups. She had a right old fit, tried to bolt and then started to buck and skipped and titupped around the arena like an Arab until she realised it wasn't going to hurt her.

    But nothing too dramatic (except that one hehe) :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2008
  8. Tain

    Tain Well-known Member

    Very true Jez.... The first sign of anything at our stable needing a spell, is when they stop meeting you at the door/ yard/ paddock gate to work**)

    The babies cant wait to come out and play, lol!

    They love their massages, work, grooming and hugs;) .

    -Certainly cant get anything past the stewards, they are a fairly sharp breed themselves, lol!

    Ultimately if the horse isn't happy, it wont run for you.

    Hi Jess :)

    PS: most of the pretraining/ preping (pre race anything) is generally done in either stockies or ap saddles, depending then on the trainer the pads are used more frequently. So the more campaigned a horse is the more pad work is done.

    Generally the younger and less raced the horse is, the more he has been ridden with leg and seat:)
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2008
  9. Jumping Bean

    Jumping Bean Well-known Member

    BuckPasser is a nice looking animal, welcome to slide into my stable any day :p :) I mentioned Secretariat as an example as I have read a number of times that he was viewed to have almost perfect conformation, this was a long time ago though, and author's opinion of course :).

    Here's an interesting link, with a pic of the handsome ginger fellow:
    Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association, Conformation

    Interesting re early speed and late speed, very different kettle of fish from what breeding I have experience with :)) .

    Secretariat also suffered from laminitis, since that is my slight obsession atm! :D

    I have had about 25 OTTB's over the years, some mine, some I was schooling, and I think I have only ever had 3 bonkers ones out of all of them. That is pretty good odds lol.
     
  10. Ozzies_Girl

    Ozzies_Girl Well-known Member

  11. Spider n Toby

    Spider n Toby Gold Member

    Jez and Tain.. WOW what great representitives you guys are for the racing industry! hehe Good job **) **)
     
  12. megan

    megan Well-known Member

    i think bad and good in everything. I have seen the worst in alot so i HATE these lets bash a sport thread.
    I think if people looked at the amount of horses to amount broken down to each sport i just wonder what the stats would really say.

    I had a OTTT that was scared really terrified of water. puddles hoses beach dams you name it. why well who bloody knows could have been is up bringing racing life WHO KNOWS.

    i love this blame bla bla or blame bla bla with no realt proof of who did what.

    Oh well rant over. good luck to who ever in what ever sport you choose. I love racing I love pacing I LOVE ALL HORSE SPORTS except steeple chacing LOL
     
  13. Jez

    Jez Gold Member

    I had to laugh at some of Merrylegs's problem list because ive seen them all in..........

    CLYDESDALES
    I can safely guarantee you all that no clydesdale i ever had anything to do with ever saw a racetrack. After working the tourist trade until their late teens some problems -

    1 terrified of tractors...no matter HOW many times he saw a tractor (given that this was an ex brewery horse he had done ag shows etc his exposure to tractors was not exactly few and far between but until the day he died he would shy, go dead still, stare at any tractor and you would have to either get off him if riding or get out if in harness and coax him forward..with his head planted in your back ..if i cant see it, its not there.

    1 petrified of minis...would bolt backwards at the sight of a mini.

    2 who cunningly worked out they could run over humans when they werent in harness - catching them to ride involved a running start and a vault.

    1 who was such an expert at head nodding he would manage to shake his bridle off and would be cruising along in harness with bridle dangling around his neck.

    1 who had huge issues with water...he loved it...if he saw water he would madly bolt towards it and swim...all the way out past the end of the bloody jetty at Kwinana horse beach. Also did same thing at Margaret River.

    1 who refused to travel in any form of float even one custom built for clydies - just general claustrophobia. Once moved him in an open top sheep truck which he loved.

    So ... in all shapes and sizes...they all have their quirks regardless of discipline. ​
     
  14. Caroline

    Caroline Well-known Member

    Considering this thread was never out to bash anyone, its a shame some folk see it as this way!:confused: #(

    Its all about the horse, not the humans!:)*

    Considering so many OTTB go on to become jumpers, pony club, adult riding, eventers or dressage horses, this thread is highly relavant, as they may carry over probs in training due to racing.

    I would like to thank those that have posted constructive thoughts towards making a difference to ottb's and their owners.

    I have taken on and re-homed many ottb's and want to continue doing so, however now that I am not 18 and know it all, I'd like to build on what I know and learn something from others.**)

    :D :))
     
  15. Tain

    Tain Well-known Member

    Caroline, could it possibly be your past digs, judgments, outright stabs at the industry that make us all nice and tired of your 'innocent thread' attempts, lol!

    Really glad for you that you are doing your bit for 'saving' horses off the likes of Shio and Jez.... I will sleep sound tonight**) :(

    :)) ;)
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2008
  16. Jez

    Jez Gold Member

    Given that when the racing thread section was including in stockies it was ME who asked the mods and admin for a section for RACING MATTERS (NOT OTTB - as far as im concerned they are not racehorses when they are retired) so people who did not "like" racing did not have to read anything at all about it, to which mods and admin agreed, WHY have you chosen to post your now.."helpful"...thread here?

    Go back a few pages - before everyone started using this section for brand enquiries/temprament of bloodlines for purposes other than racing we discussed some great racehorses and how our horses were going. Theres a section for events why not a section where we were able to discuss our discipline without being hammered as we were in open discussion.

    What a horse does after racing has nothing to do with a racing thread. Its no longer a racehorse. KS Archie an eventer or an OTTB? Andrew Hoys horses that have raced and gone on to compete world wide...Eventers or OTTBs? If you worked as a barmaid before getting a degree and becoming a rocket scientist..are you a barmaid forever? or are you a rocket scientist?. The reason some of us have reacted to your post in an angry manner harks back to your RACING IS EVIL slagging in the feeding an OTTB post. What were you expecting?

    My personal dislike of dressage is pretty well known..but do I go slagging off dressage? No..In fact, ive even gone and watched it to support friends who are competing as they have come along to support my horses while racing.

    By posting here you are clearly inferring you believe all horses who have ever come from the racing industry have problems. If i put up a post asking why people spent money on miniature horses that can never be ridden I would expect to get flamed by the owners of the horses that they love.

    Im not saying no-one should ask for info on their horse that has raced as the replies show those of us with studbook log in etc are happy to help - i.e the interpreting stewards reports thread - but please, let us have a place too where we can be PROUD of what our horses and the team of people who pull it all together do.
     
  17. Bon & Ted

    Bon & Ted Guest

    This is my ten cents worth.

    It is JMO, I am NOT saying the industry is "evil", horses are beaten and OTT's are crazy uncontrollable beasts. *#)

    - No matter if the horse can run fast as a 2 year old it does not mean that it's bones are more developed then any other 2 year old. Working a 2 year old causes many issues as their bodies are not fully developed, regardless of whether the horse is mentally mature enough, physically no horse is mature enough as a 2 year old.
    - Being shod as a young-un, again causes many many problems. TB's have such a bad rep for having shoddy feet. It's not the breed, it's what we do to the horse.
    - Being stabled 24/7, say what you will but no herd/flight animal is designed to live in these conditions. Fine they are taken for their daily walks, that does not replace the horses natural environment as they are still on the end of the lead. Stabling causes many physical and psychological issues. Many vices are caused due to over stabling ie. weaving, crib biting etc. Physical issues include hoof deformity. Hooves need movement in order to be functional, and no the daily walk or track training in the mornings is not enough. Very common to see ex-racers with turned out back feet due to being confined.

    No you will not find that many other people in other disciplines that walk their horses on a daily basis or clean their poop up 3 times a day, because in a normal environment this is unneccessary. I walk my horse almost daily as I enjoy the bonding time with him, however he is in a 3-4 acre paddock with company. I don't think our little walks makes that much difference to him, if I don't get out to do it occasionally I have peace of mind as I know he's happy where he is.

    Of course a horse is going to pop it head over the stable door to say hello, when it's time for their walk. They are cooped up all day long I'm sure they thoroughly enjoy the chance to stretch their legs and pick at some grass. I'm pretty sure if it was up to the horse, it would not choose to live in a stable over a paddock.

    JMHO. Not aimed at anyone and not bagging out the industry. If someone wishes to correct me then feel free.

    :))
     
  18. Tain

    Tain Well-known Member

    Dogs and cats were never ment to be confined in houses or yards either, lol! -it's not their natural habitat, they start digging and biting people...

    So the horses who run up to us in their irrigated grass paddocks with big shelters, wooden post and rail, and hay rolls and feeds, with rugs are desperate for freedom, lol!!!!:}

    So what you are saying is that I don't know the difference between a happy horse and one that has been spooked by an inexperienced 'horse' person.

    Riding a horse is not natural, keeping a horse is not natural... as Jez frequently offers people... come out and see these horses for yourself, lol!

    Man, you guys have waaay too much time on your hands, lol!:))
     
  19. Jez

    Jez Gold Member

    Actually Tain i dropped in at the stables for a quick minute to go and have a scratch and deliver his highness some freshly picked grass to be confronted with a rugged bum sticking out of his "house" (he has a yard with a fully enclosed wooden house attached with a window he can peek out of) - do you think the clever little bugga would come out of his house for his scratch? no, hes smarter than I am, he knows if he stands there long enough i will come in and dirty my tres elegant shoes to go to him....then he has the gall to give me a "oh you are so useless" look for being unable to adequately scratch thru his rug..i found myself having a conversation with a horse about the logistics of unrugging him for a few minutes scratching vs the cold..! Spoilt brat was in his house because of the cold, but wanted his rug off in his house to get a bumscratch...sorry matey, not when im dressed in electric turquoise velvet pmsl!.
     
  20. Bon & Ted

    Bon & Ted Guest

     
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