Possibility of Dilute????

Discussion in 'Colour Questions' started by Bubbles, Mar 1, 2011.

  1. Bubbles

    Bubbles Well-known Member

    I had some one tell me the other day that their foal is a dilute, but both parents are solid colours.

    Is this possible????????

    I would guess it would be best to get it tested, well that is what I was thinking :)
  2. Pretty sure the dilute gene is co-dominant - that means that if it is present, it WILL show. Don't quote me on it though - I'm no expert!

    So basically, out of two non-dilute parents, you CANNOT get a dilute foal unless some freaky genetic mutation happens.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2011
  3. kiraSpark

    kiraSpark Gold Member

    Not possible :)

    Unless one of the 'solid' parents is actually a dilute but has been mistaken for a solid color. Like those really dark browns that people think are just brown/black but actually are smokey black.
  4. Kate O

    Kate O New Member

    Remember also that there are five dilute genes, I guess you are talking about the cream gene though (the one that causes double creams, palominos, buckskins and smoky blacks). Cream is an incomplete dominant gene, meaning a parent has to have the gene for the offspring to have it (and it looks different in heterozygous form from homozygous). Dun, Silver, and Champagne are also dilute genes, and they are complete dominant genes, meaning a horse will look the same if it is homozygous or heterozygous. Dun and Champagne show on any coat. Silver will only show on a black based coat, so you might not know that your chestnut carries silver until it is tested or has silver offspring to a non silver mating. Pearl (another dilute gene), however, is an incomplete recessive cream activated dilution gene, meaning if both parents had one copy of pearl, you wouldn't see it (but they still carry the gene), but if they both dropped it, the foal would be homozygous pearl, and show the colour. But it is the rarest dilution gene, and there aren't many horses with it in Australia.
  5. Bubbles

    Bubbles Well-known Member

    both of the parents are bay/brown (and no know dilutes further back) and the foal is supposed to be buckskin :confused::confused:
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2011
  6. mirawee

    mirawee Gold Member

    Any chance the parents could actually be buckskins? There are a lot of buckskins around who look bay but are known to be buckies due to colour testing of the progeny they have produced.
  7. Bubbles

    Bubbles Well-known Member

    Extremely unlikely, all solid
  8. jlnew

    jlnew Well-known Member

    our taffy mini is from pinto (or whatever you call patchy mini's) no signs of dilutes in either pedigree that i can find. so this is interesting. :))
  9. Cav

    Cav Gold Member

    only one way for them to find out.....get the foal tested
  10. mirawee

    mirawee Gold Member

    Sorry Bubbles, but a buckskin is a solid colour ;)
  11. Sassy

    Sassy Gold Member

    there is an abundence of horses (especially in the pony breeds) registered as black or brown who are actually buckskin, and greys too.
    They will look that colour too right up until a dilute foal pops out!
    (I am pretty sure Kirreway Quinton was actually a black bucky ;))
  12. Cav

    Cav Gold Member

    Possible, his dam is registered as "Dun". This is why people need to make sure they register the CORRECT colours on registration papers because it affects future generations ie: Quinton is registered as "black".

    I dont think a "grey" could be registered as a buckskin.

    Just get the foal tested.....simple! :) then we will all know :)
  13. Elanda

    Elanda Gold Member

    WP & C soc call buckskin Dun, so it does get confusing*#). Greys should be reg as their birth colour (going grey) IMO as then we would know what colour they actually are, and most are:). My little white grey welshie was reg chestnut as that was his birth colour:D

    I think testing is bringing people up to date with what colour horses actually are and through discovering different genes is making colour more accurate :)

    colour for minis....whole different kettle of worms ;) From my experience VERY inaccurate recording of colours :(
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2011
  14. mirawee

    mirawee Gold Member

    I like how the Arab Society do it.

    They have Grey (born XXX) listed as the colour :)
  15. Sassy

    Sassy Gold Member

    half the APSB studbook is "Grey" even some I know are NOT grey! LOL I think when they submit rego they may of had to "guess" if the foal was going to change :confused:

    And minis are all wrong too - I dont think it helps that the registry doesnt question what the breeders put down even tho the photo shows its clearly not that colour...
    My Pally Pinto mini was reg as a Buckskin by his breeder... and when I asked for it to be corrected (with photos supplied) they called to ask is I was sure :p
  16. Bubbles

    Bubbles Well-known Member

    I know it is a solid colour but was meaning non- dilute to dilute.
  17. Cav

    Cav Gold Member

    Elanda, Scooty was registered with WP&CS as Buckskin??
  18. Elanda

    Elanda Gold Member

    a lot of the older regos say Dun**)
  19. Cav

    Cav Gold Member

    You are be right Elanda, I just checked my photocopies and it says Dun....OMG!!! So sorry , I had never noticed it before!! How can they say a pony is dun if they are clearly buckskin and registered as that with several other societies??? #(
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  20. Tintara

    Tintara Well-known Member

    For the same reason they register palominos as 'cream'. The ASHS also use dun and buckskin interchangeably depending it seems on what the owner happens to put on the application papers. With the Welshies 'dun' and 'cream' are the traditional names for those colours and given that there are no true genetic duns in the pure-bred welsh breed it wouldn't have been an issue until the advanced research into colour genetics that we've seen over the past few decades made it abundantly clear that dun and buckskin are two completely different and totally unrelated dilutions. At least with purebred Welshies you know for sure that dun means buckskin but try looking up the ASHS studbook and you haven't got a clue in many instances whether dun means true dun or buckskin.... :confused:

    And then there are all those 'chestnut' part-bred Welshies which are in fact genetic silvers ......... *#)

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