Phillipe Karl

Discussion in 'Horse Showing and Events' started by Maree4, Sep 4, 2009.

  1. myst

    myst Active Member

    philipe karl

    Crave, I have no idea what level of rider you are, but that rider is very experienced and perhaps she could feel what the horse was doing under her and was trying to achieve some control and perhaps the audience could not see this. It was a very electric evening and I am sure riders and horses were very brave to put themselves under such scrutiny without members of the audience making comment on a public forum. I feel a great deal of admiration for riders who attend these clinics, your comments are what puts off riders from being guinea pigs for judges clinics etc.
    You have every right to make an observation but unless you have been in the same situation please have a little more praise for riders who put themselves out there to help.:))
  2. valdez

    valdez Well-known Member

    My thoughts on the PK evening are as follows.

    Yes it was very brave of these riders to offer themselves for open criticism. I feel PK could have been a bit more constructive in offerering these riders at least something that he saw was going right ( in his opinion). If i was the first rider i think i would have gone home to cry!!!

    He has been here ONCE!!!! for 5 minutes.... How can anyone other than himself fully understand his system enough to go out there and start applying it back to their own training!!!!! SURE some people will have the skills and understanding to pull it off, but what happens to the horse and riders that just dont grasp the concept properly, let me tell you.... There will be horses all over perth with upside down necks and going around like llamas and riders going around with their hands up to their ears!!!!!

    No one can claim to teach this method unless they are approved and trained by PK himself. This is where the problems start!!!

    His basis of stretching the horse is correct in any training scale and if people in prelim etc just got out and did what they believe is the right thing rather than worry about scoring points dressage (not everyone obviously) would be more enjoyable for everyone. The way i see dressage is a competition against yourself, to improve each test you ride even if it takes you 20yrs. Who is to say what anyone thinks is the right thing :)

    I took away from the night a few ideas and many things to ponder, If PK comes back to Oz, i shall go again and learn more, i am not ignorant enough to think there is only one way to train a horse
  3. Mod 5

    Mod 5 Moderator

    Just having a quick look in
    Lets keep this discussion on track ;)

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - regardless of their level of ability

    As long as no-one over steps the CODE OF CONDUCT ;) (in which you would PM a mod if you saw something that does)

    Now lets move on
  4. crave

    crave Well-known Member

    Thanks Myst, but if my comment puts off a rider of that calibre attending clinics then I would be very suprised. By the way I have over the years put myself in exactly that sort of situation and have been commented on and talked about which I think, in my opinion, has made me a better rider. You seem to think I have no appreciation for these riders which is completely wrong and I have stated in my last post. This is not meant to be detrimental it was just a comment and an observation from the position where I was seated. Mods I do take on board keeping this thread nice and have attempted to do so, but will not comment any further.
  5. Midas

    Midas Well-known Member

    The PK way isn't easy, and although we saw instant results from the horses on display, which to me was relaxtion, which obviously leads to better movement, you can not expect to see the bigger picture in a few hours!

    The first time I had my lesson using the PK way I was quite sceptical, I thought is this really going to work?? and I'll tell you now it is hard work!!

    I started training my horse and me in this method 3 months ago (after trying other ways) and am only really starting to see the results now!
    My horse is off the forehand, light in the mouth, ALOT more supple!, has a more energetic walk/trot/canter and over all beccome more of a pleasure to ride!
    BUT every person is different and some people may like the PK way others may not, but instead of bagging it out, how about you try it!!:)*
  6. Rem

    Rem Well-known Member

    I would be very interested to know who you have had lessons with 'using the PK way' Midas. To become an accredited PK instructor is a very long and difficult process, he is a very exacting task master and many of the people who do the course don't pass.

    There are currently NO accredited instructors in Australia, in fact up until Monday night NONE of the riders either at the open forum or on this current clinic had ever even ridden with him!!

    There are a few people out there claiming to use PK's methods and to be quite frank they are making a hash of it.
  7. pugjoey

    pugjoey New Member

    Hey yes i do have a golden pony but he is not so golden in his winter coat!!!
  8. Obsession of Equine

    Obsession of Equine Active Member

    Gosh there really seems to be a lot of angst on here to what, I thought, an imformative evening, the evening was just that, an intro evening to the PK way, not a strict school of "you must do it like this"

    We don't all need to have accredited instructors to go back to our horses and to try it out, our instructors could help us to achieve this 'new way' of riding without having to go through the PK school, at least they can act as the pair of eyes needed to view from the ground outr horses way of going.
    Midas did not say she had an accredited Pk instructor, but if that is what you want to do as a rider and we don't have accredited instructors here in Perth I would have my instructor help me along to try to achieve this new way of riding.

    Isn't that what PK was trying to achieve anyway? All of us going back and trying this with our horses?

    I thought the evening was great, we don't need to take all of it on board, just take some of his advice and try it on and have everyone talking about it, trying the PK way of schooling and sharing the successes and tribulations associated with this 'new way' of riding.

    Anyway I also thought i would add that ALL the horses there were absolutley beautiful. I just wanted to run down and give them cuddles.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2009
  9. Double Helix

    Double Helix Well-known Member

    "QUOTE: His basis of stretching the horse is correct in any training scale and if people in prelim etc just got out and did what they believe is the right thing rather than worry about scoring points dressage (not everyone obviously) would be more enjoyable for everyone. The way i see dressage is a competition against yourself, to improve each test you ride even if it takes you 20yrs. Who is to say what anyone thinks is the right thing"

    I agree that his basis of stretching is correct in any training scale (regardless of the method used to achieve it) and as such it should be REWARDED in competition. Of course we always want to improve our riding and when competing in dressage it is not just about ribbons but about personal achievement. However, I don't want to spend 20yrs doing Prelim and if my horse is going in a nice RELAXED, SUPPLE way with a slightly open poll why should I not be placed over a horse that is jammed round and tense in the neck / jaw. All this is achieving is to say to that person that what they are doing is OK ... the sport cannot improve if the wrong style of riding is what gets rewarded. This is not unique to WA but world wide. There has been much discussion in the Horse Magazine about dressage judging and the type of training that is being rewarded in competition. Much criticism was levelled at Anky and Salinero when she was winning competitions even though the horse was tense and wouldn't stand still at halt...
  10. Midas

    Midas Well-known Member

    Yes I said use the "PK Way" I did NOT however say a PK accreditated coach....
    My coach was at the all day clinic on Tuesday training with PK, also one of her studets has just come back from training with him.

    She is studying to become accredited , and in the mean time DOES teach his method of training.... I know because EVERY exercise he gave the riders on show monday night are the ones I do with my horse.

    If you would lik to give her a go, ad make an INFORMED opinion of my coach and whether or not it's the PK way I can PM you her details!

    Please do not misconstrue what I said.... I did NOT say accreditated!

    Last edited: Sep 16, 2009
  11. buggalugs

    buggalugs Well-known Member

    hehe all the abbreviation PK got me thinking of chewing gum :D

    ok so i have no idea about PKs methods but hes a classical trainer right?? 99% of the population who are hardcore german training scale will have problems in understanding the principals of classical... i myself have a instructor who is german training scale but go to clinics with manolo mendez... i find what works for me is taking a little from each. the stricter lateral work of GTS etc works wonders for me, but i find that manolo makes me ride to true impulsion and lightness... its hard to explain the difference in feeling...

    if anyone wants to explore the classical a little more i would def recommend fence sitting or riding at one of manolos clinics, fence sitting is free... next clinic is at brookleigh in 3wks :)

    i cant truely make comment as i wasnt there, but personally i dont mind blunt instructors... at least i know what i am dealing with, id rather not be molly-coddled but be told exactly where i am going wrong... i have always said that if i come away with sweat and tears... the lesson was worth it.
  12. Cowgirl Kid

    Cowgirl Kid Well-known Member

    HAHA.. a golden poof! (don't get upset people... Im not a homophobe!)

    I will be curious to talk to my instructor who rode and see how much she took from the evening. I think that if everyone took only one thing from the evening.. it would have been worthwhile going.. I for one, took lots and even thought I won't be talented enough to use everything I learnt or heard, my riding will certainly benefit!
  13. Midas

    Midas Well-known Member

    I totally agree with u !:)*
  14. Rem

    Rem Well-known Member

    Yes, please PM me your coach's details Midas. :))

    If you know she is not accredited then that is fine, although how someone can teach the methods of someone who they have not even met yet alone had a lesson with is beyond me. I have also studied PK's methods and attended a clinic with an accredited instructor but until this week had not met PK himself. It seems unethical to me to put oneself out there as an instructor teaching PK's methods when one hasn't even met the man but meh, what would I know!!

    The clinic that is being held this week at Brookleigh, which I have been at every day, is not part of a teachers course, it is purely a clinic much the same as the recent Debbie McDonald clinic, there is no accreditation to be had from attending it. Students who wish to attend PK's teachers course must apply and be accepted, it was planned that there would be a teachers course run here over the next three years but I will be surprised if it goes ahead. :))
  15. Midas

    Midas Well-known Member

    she doesn't advertise herself as a PK instructor, she doesn't advertise at all.

    I got her number from a friend, and the first time she came out she told me this is what I do! Give it a go and if you don't like it I understand!!

    At the time I contacted her I had no idea she used this method :)

    have PM'ed you! :)
  16. Shakhaan

    Shakhaan Well-known Member

    Well, I had a great time :) Went with an open mind, willing to be educated, and I was. Not a convert, but did learn a different technique to encourage longer necks. He seems to have quite the sense of humour, and certainly no sugar coating... and he has my utmost respect for his concern over the horse's welfare first and foremost.

    Bugg, when is manolo here??? I meant to go watch at his last clinic, but couldn't as it clashed with something.... it better not be the weekend of the 10th/11th Oct though! ;) Already got enough on then... and the weekend before that is Brig ODE...
  17. Rem

    Rem Well-known Member

    He's here 6th to 8th October. :))
  18. Shakhaan

    Shakhaan Well-known Member

    Yay, thanks Rem! During the week, suits me :) At brookleigh, yes? with fencesitters allowed?
  19. flowerpetal

    flowerpetal New Member

    The riders at PK's evening were fantastic and the horses were superb, I think they were incredibly brave offering themselves up to someone of that stature for criticism and hope, as top level riders, would take something away from that evening and put it to good use. The fact of the matter was, and the whole point, was that the horses weren't going forward correctly into a contact. Pk had those horses going forward into a steady contact stretching over the back and top of the neck and stretching their stride out (within ten minutes!), if you could see any thing that night, you could see that! It doesn't matter whether you are being trained by a accredited coach or someone on the ground that just knows what they're looking for when you're riding, when you see a rider that good you have to take something away and at least try it! I went home and tried it on my OTTB who could not (or would not) go into a consistent contact and after 20 minutes of raising and lowering my hands slowly, not excessively, bending left and right and keeping his nose above the verticle at all times and kept him going forward and low and behold... He held his head straight and steady and held a contact! It works, and the funny part is, if you talk to people that have been riding for more than 40 years, they'll say "that's what we used to do" to an awful lot of those techniques.
    Like PK said "we don't ride horses to win, we ride to become better horse people" Every time you see anyone with that amount of experience, take everything in, whether you end up using it or not!
  20. notickets

    notickets Well-known Member

    welcome flowerpetal,
    fantastic first post!
    I agree completely, you summed it all up really well.

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