PHAA removed mandatory testing for PSSM1

Discussion in 'Breeding Horses' started by Coliban Quarter Horse Stud, Apr 23, 2013.

  1. I see it as a step backwards. I hoped AQHA would follow the progressive thinking of PHAA and introduce the ruling as well. But it didn't happen.
    The rule to test for PSSM1 was outvoted by ONE vote.
    Meanwhile a friend of mine put her future stud horse to be in the ground after 2 years of battle with shakes attacks and horrible feet on all 4 legs, it costed her heaps of money to buy it in the first place, plus heaps more to look after it in vet and farrier bills.
    And on top of that she had to pay the guy to dig the hole for him:( and pay the vet to put him to sleep.:eek:
    All she she wished she knew about PSSM1 prior to buying and she wouldn't wish it on any horse or its owner what she's been through with her colt.
    She was absolutely devastated. How many more people are in her shoes?
    Your thoughts.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  2. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    It is, indeed, sad that the regulatory testing has not been renewed. Sadly, when it came to light that no cross-referencing of the samples sent for PPSM testing was happening, it voided all tests that had previously been recorded :( There are still registries occurring online based on tested results. So hopefully these can be utilised at a later date?
  3. How would it help the horses?';' why keep in the breeding program stock that will be passing a defect 50% without a fail?:eek:
  4. carol51

    carol51 Well-known Member


    i think its disgracefull if theres problems genetically in any breed all should be tested for so i guess its gonna be up to the responsible breeders to do it themselves whats new.
  5. foxleigh stud

    foxleigh stud Active Member

    It is a real shame Coliban I think the western breeds were and let's face it still are progressive - one step back doesn't mean they are not still alot more forward thinking than most other breed societies.

    I tested my stallion for PSSM1 as I have a friend with a Warmblood who struggles with it but most people within my breed don't test for anything or if they do don't advertise it. I guess people are scared that after paying alot of money for a mare or stallion to have it test positive :dry:
  6. What about new comers? Can you imagine them all excited with the idea of getting a dream horse, they usually don't know much or enough about genetic disorders and ending up paying a good dollar for an affected horse?
    I have followed the story of my friend's horse. She knew from the day she bought him it was something wrong with him. Then thanks to some devoted breeders, who discovered they had PSSM1 horses themselves and opened this can of worms trying to educate the others. Then the test became available in the US and the breeder tested her mare and the foal. The mare was N/N, the foal tested Ps1 positive. It meant that the sire of the said foal was a PSSm1 carrier. He also was the sire of my friend's foal as well.:eek: it started to make the perfect sense with all the symptoms fitting the picture.
    Talking to a real person facing real dramas with PSSM horse scared the bejesus out of me. :eek: So we tested all our breeding stock. It costed us a small fortune but at least we could sleep well knowing that our horses don't carry dominant genetic disorders that could be passed on in 50% cases. We were so lucky they all were negative:) The results are on our website for everyone to see.:)))
    I wouldn't buy or breed to a PSSM1 horse after seeing how it affected my friend.
    So folks it is back to a buyer beware again! If you don't ask a breeder or a stallion owner if their horse is a carrier they are not obliged to tell you because neither of AAA, AQHA or PHAA require the testing.:eek:
    There are lists of positive and negative horses on the PSSM1 Forum page on a social networking site. It is worth while checking prior to breeding or purchasing your next horse.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  7. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    That's the thing though Coliban. As the owner of these breeding horses, you took it upon yourself to do the responsible thing and have product assurity. Your buyers can then know that your horses have been tested. Did your friend have her horse Vet-Checked before purchase? In a breed where PSSM is acknowledged, could that have been something (in hindsight) that should be checked pre-purchase? Certainly it's why we choose to use lines that are HYPP or HERDA tested or not required.

    If the Buyers don't want to check those things out, they leave themselves open to all sorts. As the Seller, best to have those checks all in place!
  8. Or prefer not to even if they know for a fact or suspect their stud horse is a carrier.;) if it is not in black and white they can't be held liable.
  9. She bought him as a weanling. Even if it were vetted prior to purchase, no vet would pick up PSSM1 without a test or a foal fitting in front of him/her during the examination.
    The seller actually contacted my friend when she found out herself that the sire was a carrier, she genuinely didn't know, it wasn't the public knowledge back then.

    I also gave a heads up to a breeder in WA when I saw she was going to breed a possible carrier to a definite carrier and didn't even get a thank you back, not even an acknowledgement of receiving the valuable info, but you get that;),
    I know I have done the right thing by warning her.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  10. EVP
    GBED is a recessive disorder, a carrier is NOT affected in any way physically or mentally from it.;)The danger is when 2 carriers are bred together and then there is 1 in 4 chances for a foal to inherit Gb from BOTH parents which leads to its death within 3 months.
    GBED is like HERDA, recessive. When PSSM1 is like HYPP a dominant disorder that gets passed on to 50% of the progeny regardless of the other parent status.
    The question is how many carriers get afflicted?:confused: And how many non afflicted carriers can sire afflicted ones?:confused:
    I was not going to risk a horse's well being to find that out.;)
  11. Reposted with the permission of Loretta Hammond Grosset, the admin of PSSM Forum, who has been educating people re PSSM1 for many years.

  12. samm

    samm Gold Member

    I can't quite fathom why you would not want to test.
    Step backwards in my mind.
  13. wattle6180

    wattle6180 Gold Member

    Because for registration, the DNA goes to Lab A. For PSSM-testing the sample goes to Lab B. Lab B can send you a clear result, but this is all just based on the honour-system atm. So, pretty useless :(

    They would have to be able to have a control sample of each testing to verify the results.

    Going forward, perhaps the associations could panel test at registration?
  14. I have found out that another 2 people I know personally lost their horses to PSSM1:eek: I have contacted both of them for further details.
    Sad, isnt't it?:eek:
  15. magic_impact

    magic_impact Well-known Member

    Coliban, you are obviously very passionate about this, so here is a genuine question for you ...

    You got your breeding stock tested, and thankfully the results came out negative :)* But if they had been positive for one of your boys, what would you have done? For a recessive trait, would you breed only to negtive mares? not breed at all? ';'

    I think the issues get muddier when your own stock are in question, it is not so easy to lay it all out in black and white. Issues like this are one reason I steer clear of the breeding realm - way too difficult and SO much responsibility. Much easier just to buy one!
  16. I had reasons to be very very worried while I was waiting for the results.
    To say I wasn't eating and sleeping would be an understatement. For us it was a lot of money invested on importing horses from the US and many years of selective breeding on the line.
    Brian and I had a good talk about the situation and mutually decided that if Tru Blu Texan's test comes back positive, he'd be gelded and either sold on as a riding horse or kept as a farm ornament.
    We have also decided not to breed from mares that might come positive for PSSM1. We wouldn't be selling them so they can't be used as a breeding stock further on.
    PSSM1 is a dominant disorder, it doesn't skip generations and gets passed on in 50% chances regardless. 50% was too much of a gamble for us.
    I wouldn't buy or breed to a PSSM1 carrier, so how could I expect anyone buying it from me or using my horse?';'
    We were ready to disperse the stud and get out of breeding.
    We were VERY LUCKY that all horses came N/N for PSSM and only 1 mare tested positive for GBED, which is a recessive disorder, it doesn't affect a carrier in any way, the danger arises only when 2 carriers are bred together.
    I ended up going nearly all grey in one month, Brian lost few hairs as well.
    It was a tough time for us.
  17. magic_impact

    magic_impact Well-known Member

    Thanks for the reply, I wouldn't have envied you during the wait. Its obvious just how much you have invested (don't mean just $ either) into your horses and your breeding program.
  18. I strongly advise owners with the following names in the pedigrees of their horses to test them for PSSM1:
    Pretty Impressive, Sonny Dee Bar and Dreamfinder. One of Joe Hancock sons was a carrier. For yellow ponies (QHs, Paints, Appies) test them if you see Yellow Wolf, Yellow Jacket, Midnight way back in their pedigrees.
  19. mirawee

    mirawee Gold Member

    Unfortunately a lot of the labs doing the testing do not provide any QA. Most don't even do the DNA profile of the individual to make sure the DNA belongs to the right animal.

    I know a dog who was tested 2 times for prcd-PRA. First test came back as affected - a bit alarming as the parents had been tested (by the same company) as a clear to carrier mating! Further tests proved the dog to actually be a carrier whose sample had been cross contaminated.

    Where I work we do DNA testing of humans for research but in order for those results to be released to the participants the sample needs to be retested by an approved lab which is also set up to do the QA (they just know where to look so it costs a lot less than to do a full screen)

    So I can fully accept why societies would not make it a mandatory requirement until the results are to be relied upon. However if people are buying breeding stock they should have done their homework and no what conditions can be in the breed and ask for DNA results from the parents :) If no results they can then choose not to buy.
  20. It didn't worry me in the slightest if the results would be approved, admitted or required by AQHA. We've done it for own peace of mind, to know 100% what our breeding stock carries on the genetic level. It was worth every cent in my opinion.
    We were lucky to get all negatives but I feel real sorry for those who's horses tested positive.

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