Discussion in 'Problem Horses' started by lesha, Apr 3, 2010.
always my main intention nanny
Sounds to me that your doing his head in our colt is 17 months and he has only had halter training and Tie up. Bull bits and side reins gosh its a lot to handle for any horse that age never mind a young colt.
Anything over 12 months is a yearling!!!!
( I was sternly told off many years ago for saying 14 months etc) so now they are yearlings!
I have to agree with the fact that
1. this horse does sound fed up and overwhelmed. He's trapped, and not able to freely express his exuberance, so theirfore his energy is going UP rather than forward...ect ect. He's probaly a lovely fellow - just really frustrated. HIs adolesant brain cant handle everthing you are 'training' him with. Why does he have side reins on? what purpose do these have at this age?
2.and I ask, Are their the capabilities and experience, forethought, focus, long term planning, acceptance of responsibilties present to continue with such a horse as an entire.
YES - their are animals out their that were great colst, that had such training at such a young age - and just perhaps took it all in their stride withouth the displays of youthful exuberance/frustration your fellow displays. Perhaps that is what gave them the pass to keep their testicles.
3. This will come out wrong - but if you have the need to ask on a forum for advise on this matter then, 1. you dont have, or dont FEEL you have the support to handle a breeding program appropriately and responsibly, 2. you dont have the experience to deal with the issue.
We can all acheive our dreams - breeding or otherwise, but we all need experience and knowledge, whether or not that comes from our OWN bank, or a close handly third party **)
all the best - but remember, it will get harder before it gets better, if it does
I would consider sending him to a professional breaker...not to be broken but to try and get his ground manners sorted...this lack of respect for you will continue to worsen and it could result in you or someone else being injured or killed. I wouldn't be so concerned about the lungeing etc until he has some decent manners...you shouldn't need to put a bull bit on a 15month old colt just to handle him...as you said, you have others who are not like this and people can't believe his attitude, I would geld him...Also I would suggest you try and attend a Steve Brady school, he does a tremendous amount of work on the ground and has helped thousands of people! He may be able to give you some help.
Our stallion has NEVER displayed any of these tendencies even during the middle of the breeding season, we only use a rope halter on him but we always carry a dressage whip...
There may well be a chance to get your boy sorted and allow you to carry on with your dream of using him for breeding, but ultimately I would be VERY concerned if he were to pass this attitude on to his progeny...many professional handlers/breaker I know all say the same thing (and they will forget more about stallions than most people will learn) is that a great stallion will make an even better gelding!!
Beagle - I think that is exactly what my father would have said too PMSL!
you are so good in rectifying 2 main issues mentioned above! ahahaha!*
think your baby needs less done with him except maybe come in couple times a week for a brush and thats it
and find yourself an experienced arab handler to help with any issues before someone (self) gets hurt wish you all the best and dont forget to give us updates and pics
hey everyone been off line for a few days,
i have really only started lunging him last month and it is usally only for 10,15 mins not a long period of time...
it would only be the last 4 months or so he has needed to bit... as a baby he was lead by a 10 yrs old right upto 6 or so months was perfect and is to do everything.he is very forward moving when leading it just when we stop or he wants to do something else he goes up.. but hasent done it the last 2 days very happy..
when he is walked past a horse round his age or yougner he arks up and start's snorting and pransing carrying on like he a full grown stallion when walked past an older horse does baby talk.... been talking with a freind who has horses where i am of putting him out for a few hrs with a her young geld in arvo for a play but just get worried that they might play a little to ruff.....
he isent mean or aggressive toward me can be quiet sweet when he wants to.. been around horses now since i could walk and was chucked in the deep end from a young age handling,dealing with horses.. i have done alot of breeding last few years with my family. started with handleing the mare and learning how to hold her and what to do, then last 4/5 years was handling the stallion. so i think i have learnt a little knowledge.but am always listening to people and see how they do things and what advice they have as all info is great and learning new things. one day when im finacially ok i will have my property and breed. I didnt post on her that i couldnt handle him... just more in the case is ther anything i can do or activites to stop rearing.... or how to get them out of it..
my theory was for showing they need muscle tone and a top line and to look good in proportion. how else to do that but with exercise ???????
( colibargh ) i have 2 other arab mares to me which have good breeding but other may not think so.. or go in different ways.. i did have a few more but have only got the three at this time...
Lesha - are you able to turn him out in a paddock with hills? I've shown all of our yearlings (& won) without doing lungeing etc...simply putting them in a paddock where the water was at the bottom of the hill and the feed at the top...and when the were out with other horses they also spent hourse playing, rearing & carrying on, it is part of the natural process of growing up and learning herd dynamics (ie: the older dominant mare taught the youngsters a few lessons includin gour colt, he learnt not to try to be bossy otherwise he got a bit of a reminder that he wasn't so damn clever PMSL)
scarlet- a friend wonts to put her young gelding out with him now so thinking of doing that so they can learn to play and teach each other... he spent all over xmas and new yr paddocked with older horses and it did him the world of good.. but has worn off now... i would put him out with my mares but he seems a little to advanced he gets way to excited arounds mares plus he has ball bags the size off cocunuts which scares me sometimes... but will try get him out with a few horses just hard with others been show horses.getting cuts and hair missing..... = )
Wow lesha, you have a 'kind' friend. I wouldn't risk my gelding with a rambuncious (sp?) colt. Different story if you owned all the horses to be put with him, but what will happen to your friendship is your colt rips the throat out of your friends gelding? I know, this is worst case scenario, but we all know with horses, anything can happen.
If it were me, I'd thank your friend, but find another solution.
Best of luck tho.)
he has been out with my friends horse for a few days now and they are working out who the boss it between them... but he is fine with horse that are older then him not aggressive, or mean and always does baby talking... and when the horse is younger he just trys to dominate them.. and rear and strike play with them they have a ball only few bite marks between them but they are both better beahved now i can lead him with out bull bit on but. my friend wonted her horse to be bossed around a little bit cause he is very much a norty one aswell but not like my boy.. they also are both out with the king of the property who teaches every horse the peckin order and how to act and be a horse i guess. but he gets along wiht my boy very well. it gives them both something to do during the day and someone to play with..
he is rising 2 this yr and cant be out with others for every .. when he is out with others he is great its when he fogets im boss.....
LOL I must have 'underhandled' my stallion then - he was weaned, had a very quick halter lesson using the Jeffery's method. Was 'thrown' out with another young colt and my old gelding until he was 2. Brought in for a reminder halter lesson (wormed etc in between times of course), then 'thrown' out again with the boys until he was 3 when the other colt came out to be gelded and had another 2 day, "hey, this is a halter, remember this?", then was 'thrown' out again until he was 4 and THEN he was brought in and handled every day, and his "handling" was all of, walk out to his yard from the stable, walk into the stable from his yard for the night. Had a roller put on him a few times and a bit, but only a handful of times, float loaded and then off to the breaker.
And the people who broke him in raved and raved about his temperment and trainability. Only time he is ever in a bullbit is at a new place or at a show (because it's a ruling now obviously) but he doesn't really "need" it.
I agree with others who have said - back off with your "training" because he is not handling it, but before you do, take him to someone to get the rearing sorted. I'd personally recommend Watkins because that's where I trust all my babies to go and the only breaker's I have had pleasureable expirence with. Never used Saltriver or GeeJay but I've heard wonderful things about them as well - so call them all, get prices and ask them what they do, and go for it. He needs to get it sorted otherwise a 3 year old rearing and striking is going to seriously hurt someone.
Sorry, stallion's win hand down for strength.
yeh i would leave him out wiht older horse if i could full time but i dont have my own property as off yet.. so difficult when agisting. so wen i can i keep him paddocked with others he has actually become the bullys best mate, he normally is the boss and tells other to rack off and keep well away from him but my boy sits on his bum :d
hopefully he can stay out with them for as long as possible, he is good to handle now still can be a little pushy sometimes but cant expect him to be perfect 24/7,plus still a baby.
havent used a bull bit in a week now maybe. but does him the well of good we havent reared in 2 weeks either really should write this down i think as he progresses.
he doesnt even chew his rugs anymore still apply stop crib paste a little bit just to be sure... my rugs stay safe. !!!
ive always known and been learnt to work them soon as not for long just to give him something to concentrate on.... he really enjoys it...;D
he is not a normal little 15 month old arab.... he is 14 1/2 hh mayb and is wide as anything such a big boy.... in a 5'6 rug.. he is same size as 2 yr old t/breeds.
But thank you everyone for all comments and suggestions !!!!!
where are you situated?
im located in swan valley....
Why don't you get in touch with Karen from Mohegan Training stables? She is not far away from where you are.
hi, definately go back to basic groundwork/manners... Make sure you always carry a whip or hosepipe and make yourself look threatening and big when you're telling him off, every little thing he does at that age is a test... For example he should be able to be lead calmly past other horses without speeding up or hopping around/snorting, are you reprimanding him strongly everytime? Just asking in my opinion the rearing is a respect issue, you need to be really positive that you win every battle ESPECIALLY when he rears at you (as horrible as it is to say it... By giving him a beating when he does it!)
Could also try using a Spanish serreta (but one with smooth metal under leather) when leading/working as that puts pressure above the nose(so they can't pull up against you to rear, instead they feel the pressure from above so should put their head back down.
Hope that helps
Also agree with everyone that he should be getting nothing but time in a paddock with occassinal handling , not work with side reigns etc... Just in my opinion
Instead of worrying about getting him round, worry about getting him desensitized to other horses, putting on headcollars, plastic bags, everything!!
give him a beating?!?! Spanish seretta??? Would NOT reccommend!