Natural horsemanship OR just plain old Horsemanship!

Discussion in 'Training Horses' started by FDPH, Oct 31, 2009.

  1. Mayasmum

    Mayasmum Well-known Member

    Merlin believe it or not, I don't take issue with what you do with your horse and I'm certainly not trying to convert anyone.

    The above post by you was clearly a dig at riding in a halter, all I want in this thread is a balance of views. Not a whole bunch of people making incorrect assumptions laughing at NH, as is clearly happening. I'm not laughing at you, merely defending my own beliefs. I certainly at no point have intentionally "thrown stones at you".

    You reep what you sow.
  2. FDPH

    FDPH Guest

    There is alway someone who will belittle others because they don't follow tradition.!! :))
  3. saltriver

    saltriver Guest

    hehe FDPH Am back after a full on day of drafting ,dust and very large snotty Bulls! Also Bill and shorty Freemen top US cutters also had a relationship with Hunt and Dorrance.

    Jason Leitch, is the aussie cutter and Carl Hester the english dressage guy,
    for posteritys sake Ray said to me the only person in the world that could hold a candle to Tom Was Carl hester!:))
  4. Rem

    Rem Well-known Member

    I would be interested to know what level you compete dressage at Merlin.

    Tyana Lawless recently rode a GP test in a bitless bridle.

    Jayne Lavender and her horse Bach are more than capable of piaffe, passage, flying changes and half pass not only in a bitless bridle but also bareback and bridleless. I don't know if they have ever put it together in a 'test', I would guess not as Jayne is too busy teaching to compete.

    My opinion, for what it's worth, is that I would like to see bitless bridles allowed in dressage competition, I think people should have the right to choose. Dressage is all about harmony, or it should be, I would like to see whether my horses and I can achieve it bitless as well as with a bit. Maybe naively I believe that it is the relationship that you have with your horse that dictates whether or not you are able to achieve true lightness and harmony and not the tack that you use.

    I don't have a problem with 'bits' per say, as long as they are in capable hands. I think you should earn the privilege of using a bit in a horse's mouth, I don't believe it is a right. Or rather, it shouldn't be.
  5. Saiorse

    Saiorse Well-known Member

    "A tradition without intelligence is not worth having." T.S. Eliot

    "Don't feed the trolls." E. J. Lavender

  6. HorseSlave

    HorseSlave Well-known Member

    I beg to differ, traditions DO change. The world is not flat.

    I'm happy for you that you find comfort in the way things have always been done. Personally, I'm striving for a better way, as I think are many others who have partaken of this thread.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2009
  7. Saiorse

    Saiorse Well-known Member


    Here's a thought, when someone else says something articulate that reflects your thoughts, like Horsemanship methods, it's only fair to acknowledge their succinctness when you "quote" them. There is no dishonesty in expressing an opinion different to yours.

    And I, like many who participate on forums, use integrity and awareness of the delicate nature of others, when posting our honest opinions. That is why we do not swear, attack, defame or belittle our fellow humans. Instead we use self-restraint.

    Do not EVER PM me again unless it is to apologise for your lack of self-restraint, and perhaps to reflect on the growth that your contribution to this thread has brought about in you.

    Epiphany of the day; The more I listen to people the more I love my horse...

  8. Faxie

    Faxie Well-known Member

    if people are lowering to sending pathetic nasty PM's, Mods it's time...

    we are lucky to have professionals posting on this forum, if people want them to be driven away you're going the right way..
  9. Saiorse

    Saiorse Well-known Member

    Thx Faxie, but this is mostly a great educational thread, so rather than engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent, I have drawn my line & add another to the "ignore" list.

    But please keep contributing to this thread. We are really getting to the bottom of our own issues surrounding Horsemanship, and dare I say we are learning, and discovering similarities in our ways with horses, despite our differences.

  10. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    Jayne, Im very sorry that some people forget their manners when they feel their point of view is not being heard.

    On a lighter note, I found these and thought instantly of this thread.



    It has been a very interesting thread, I only wish that I could post some of the PM's that I have received lol, but then the thread would have been closed 6 pages ago.

    Sometimes you have to agree to dissagree, and there is no shame in walking away with your mouth SHUT!
  11. Murray

    Murray Well-known Member Staff Member

    This is a great thread!**) Should any member receive a nasty pm in relation to the information they have posted please send me a pm advising the offending party and they will be gone.

  12. Gaia

    Gaia Gold Member

    This thread has been the most thought provoking and interesting thread ever to be on Stockies. I sincerly hope that whoever sent the nasty PM can pull their head in and realise that we don't all have to agree or even like each other here. The differing opinions and experiences are what makes it so interesting. Knowing Jayne personally, I can pictures exactly how she would say what she has written, with no malice or offence. It saddens me to think someone has taken it all too far :(
  13. GeeJay

    GeeJay Guest

    There is a saying what intimidates the weak will nurture the strong and also don’t do to others that you wouldn’t like done to you. I believe if you have something to say, say it don’t hide behind the curtain:(.

    Gosh what a morning just loaded some of the biggest Billy Goats we have ever had, some weighing close to a 100 kilos and horns over a 1mtr from tip to tip, they make handling horses seem so easy LOL, mind you we here so many horror stories of how other’s handle these animals and we are yet to find a reason why, they are such proud beasts and so very intelligent I admire them so much, just wish they didn’t smell so bad LOL.

    Happy Horsing:))
  14. FDPH

    FDPH Guest

    Thanks Admin and that is dissapointing Jayne for you to receive an unwanted PM.
  15. FDPH

    FDPH Guest

    I have read a thread in another part of the forum and watched some You Tube things on Dressage horses. I will admit what I know about dressage is zilch except the basic stuff I learnt from an instructor as a young girl, (let me tell you that was many moons ago!) I also read an absoluteley terrific book written by I spose a classical dressage master (know doubt if he wasn't you can let me know) now his name was Podensky or something I cannot find the book now and would dearly like to read it again, where is SR she will definately know the name! By the by after watching You Tube and googling Phillipe Karl after seeing his name on this thread I cannot understand why these people who are Olympic level riders and seemingly are supposed to be horseman ride in this hyperflexion. It is actually wrong. Yet the horses trained in the classicall manner seem to be softer, and frearer in their movement and quite obviously more happy. So why do they train their horses in this "overbent" manner? Is it what wins?
    This may seem off topic but still very much about horsemanship and to my mind allowing the natural rather than the mechanical.
    I do hope this all doesn't sound like a jumbled mess of words and please excuse my ignorance on the topic:)
  16. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Training.......... or training?

    When I think of the term 'horsemanship' I think of techniques that humans should learn to handle and ride their horses. Ways that provide little conflict and result in a relaxed horse and happy confident owner/rider.

    The term does not conjure up pictures of horses leaping over logs with no gear, handlers standing with long sticks pointing into a float, horses standing on logs or rocks or horses bowing, sitting or rearing.

    I apologise in advance, but I do not find these images remotely connected to the term "horsemanship". Why? Because they most likely will not result in life lessons that a horse can take with him to subsequent owners.

    They are merely making him a 'select trained animal' that fits the needs of his current owner and it in no way prepares him for the world for which he is destined....that of being a riding animal who will in all probability have 4 or more homes before he dies.

    I find the notion of training horses to do all kinds of "tricks" (oh yes that word again) rather useless. Why have a horse that can bow or sit but cannot tie to a hitch, take a ride, or any other actual horse required etiquette.

    If learning horsemanship (natural or otherwise) is for the prolonged GOOD of the horse why not perfect (or seek to perfect) the things that a horse is going to need for it to be safe and respected for its ENTIRE a HORSE!

    Can it really be "building or extending the bond between horse and handler" if the horse isn't learning actions and behaviours that will make his life easier throughout his life time?
    So is all that "training" preparing that horse for his future.......or is it catering to the personal goals of his present owner?

    The "ethical" breeding of horses to me, is to continually seek to contribute well-bred, healthy and desirable horses to the equine community. Surely the preparation and training of those horses also carries a certain amount of long term responsibility? :)))
  17. KC Quarter Horses

    KC Quarter Horses Gold Member

    Well said EVP !! :)
  18. FDPH

    FDPH Guest

    Totally agree EVP, I just look at the way it's gone about I study NH (I spose!!) and yet I ride all my horses in a bridle, they don't jump logs unless chasing a bullock!! and they don't do any tricks. SR horses also don't do tricks. Therefore we have to differentiate between NH that just teach tricks to the others that don't! I spose the idea is that the horse is so responsive and in tune that if you want to ride him with a halter or no headpiece at all the horse will be willing to stay with the rider and not P&^S off! Ben and Troy did an bridleless exahbition run at Quirindi draft last weekend, why just because they could!

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