Natural horsemanship OR just plain old Horsemanship!

Discussion in 'Training Horses' started by FDPH, Oct 31, 2009.

  1. KC Quarter Horses

    KC Quarter Horses Gold Member

    PC has a different basis & there are rules in place for the safety of all concerned. You cannot ride in a rope halter at PC nor are you allowed to lead your horse while out in front. The rule for PC is that you must lead your horse at the shoulder & yes you are not allowed to drag your lead rope or bridle on the ground......this is a safety issue.
    If fact you cannot even ride in a bitless bridle at PC either, however PC is a great institution for 1000's of kids around Australia & world wide.
    It gives the kids a real basis in horse care & riding & most kids have allot of fun being in a team environment.
    Sure you see over horsed kids on horses with sever bits with kids who dont have the hands for it etc, but you will find many many children who attend PC come from non horsey families with parents who have no idea.....not all but many. This is educational for parents as well and as the child grows & learns many do in fact try other things.
    My daughter attended PC for many years & while there had to abide by PC rules & regulations, wear the uniform & have her horse presented in the appropriate saddlery for PC. She had allot of fun & enjoyed the comradie found in this institution, however that doesn't mean she couldn't do what she wanted away from a PC rally.
    I can recall a time when I was in a 100acre paddock & wanted to take some photos of the foals. I asked Skito to round them up for me, so she called Jafale her pony, who cantered up to her, she vaulted on & took off at canter ( no saddle, no bridle) and rounded up the horses & bought them back.
    Just because someone doesn't ride in a rope halter does not mean they lack horsemanship skills & just because you do ride in one doesn't make you are a great horseperson either.....that is just equipment & usually the equipment changes depending in where you are & what you are doing.
    Skito can do the same thing with my stallion & I trained him, and while I have ridden him many times in a rope halter, usually I dont & I always have a saddle BUT I do not have the seat that she does.
    Even though we do not attend PC anymore & I certainly had a few issues with I still believe it is a great institution for the kids of today & things are changing, just more slowly :)
  2. Lacey

    Lacey Well-known Member

    Domingo - That comment was from the outside looking in so far as most of the people that have come to my dad for help with handling their horses (or looking for large spaces in which to ride)fit that general discription and that is one thing they themselves have said! (though maybe it would be a bit more general as to say nervous riders) BTW: who said i was blaming?!

    One other thing i was wondering it what does everyone else classify as horsemanship??
  3. TBPA

    TBPA Well-known Member

    Amen, I said it was normal for some people not necessarily common.

    and I went to PC too and I can ride my horse in rope halter any day I want always have been able to who wants to clean bridles when you've been swimming your horse in the Dam(quite a ride away).
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2009
  4. Merlin

    Merlin Well-known Member

    As a kid I would ride around bareback in a halter and leadrope*#)
  5. TBPA

    TBPA Well-known Member

    Yeah well my sister was definiatly a natural horseman at 4 years old she didn't even need clothes just a piece of binder-twine round the ponies neck, the photos are so cute though perhaps our mother should be strung up for taking photos instead of wrestling her off the pony an applying helmet and boots (and perhaps jodpurs) but it was the eighties and kids were tougher :p.

    In all seriousness I was just trying to say the brand of training is not important only that you communicate well with your horse and yes some people have a lot to learn. But then we all do don't we.
  6. FDPH

    FDPH Guest

    It matters not what the horse has on his head it is how it is used.
  7. Merlin

    Merlin Well-known Member

    So a bolting, bucking horse is going to stop in a halter and leadrope? Surely you would have more control with a bit and noseband:)
  8. Anna E

    Anna E Guest

    Sigh... Merlin I have seen horses bolt in both. I've seen horses stopped from a bolt in both as well.
    My daughter is SAFER leading her pony from the front than hanging onto his chin - if he gets a fright she is some feet away from him and he's less likely to end up in her lap (well he's not going to go there at all because he has been taught to respect her space but that may be a bit too "Parelli" for you again...). He is happier, and therefore safer, in a rope halter when she "rides" him (she's only 5 so we're still talking leadline here) because if she gets off balance she's not socking him in the teeth. And at that level what the hell does it matter whether the pony is wearing a bridle or not - they're on a leadline!!
    As FDPH said is matters not what is on the horse's head but how it is used. But your average PC doesn't espouse that philosophy, and I'm not going to confuse her or the pony in order to comply for one Sunday a month.
    The point I was trying to make is that for much of horse society, horsemanship as we have attempted to define it here (and please feel free to shout me down but I suspect it's not that far different from what others call NH) is NOT common or normal.
    Hence the reason why people who come late to the "new" version (and I will count myself among them as for the first 20 years of my riding life I was BRITISH PC educated and never heard a word about learning theory, positive reinforcement, or reward and relief) can get a bit over enthusiastic. Also why they can get a bit defensive, which for many can come across as closed minded..
  9. Faxie

    Faxie Well-known Member

    Off the top of my head, Parelli supporters in horsesports are - Craig Johnson (reining), David O'Connor (olympic eventing), Walter Zettyl (dressage) they all use Parelli's methods & techniques as an integral part of their training. Walter Zettyl is one of Pat & Linda's mentors & teachers..

    Even though i did PC etc.. I used to ride everywhere bareback and in a halter too as a kid, then as i became a teenager/adult i lost that natural connection.. thankfully have it back now..

    Bending a horses head/neck to a stop he loses power to his hindqtr so that is how you stop in an emergency, you can learn to ride with one rein and in a halter in a safe area such as an enclosed arena, so you un-learn pulling back on both reins to stop with a piece of metal in the horses mouth to do damage with. You of course learn and practise this in a non-emergency situation so it becomes 2nd nature to you and your horse for when you might need it. You carry this skill into the bit and bridle as well. But by the time you progress to a piece of metal in your horses mouth you will have lost the need to pull and automatically bend if you get into a situation. Saves the horses mouth bigtime!
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2009
  10. Sharaway

    Sharaway Guest

    Ive lost my ability to get back up when I fall off, so I choose to not take chances and risks no matter how confident I might be in my horse or training.

    There are just somethings I will no longer do, ride with out a helmet, nope wont ever do that again, ride with out a saddle, not even bareback at the beach, as I fall of easily enough with one, ride with out a bridle, nope, not even cos I can, the horse is 100% safe and Im in a round yard, just wont do it any more.

    These changes I have made not because of fear for myself, but out of responsibility to my husband, employer, friends and other horses if I get myself killed doing what I love doing most.

    I have no desire to go to the ends of the earth and back with my horse and our abilities, I will leave that to those that do, any day I can ride now is a good one.

    My Dr made it crystal clear that my next fall will be my last, so I have learnt to do things far more calmly, with far more empathy and patience, and with far more time allowed, however, I also expect my horses to not take the piss, and to remember that I am their leader on not their paddock mate.

    The worst part is, not one of the stupid dumb arse dangerous things that I did with horses as a kid, and just last week LOL, havent got me injured, it was freak accidents on a seeminly safe horse, safe environment riding out with experianced friends. NO method or training will save you from a freak accident. Life just likes to challenge us sometimes, and sometimes your just plain unlucky!
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2009
  11. FDPH

    FDPH Guest

  12. Merlin

    Merlin Well-known Member

    ROFL well I would love to see a Grand Prix dressage test done in a halter and lead, maybe next year for the Emily Pelloe at the royal I will have a made to measure Parelli halter and lead instead of bridle*#)

    I think I will stick with what I know and trust:))
  13. Mayasmum

    Mayasmum Well-known Member

    Dressage in a halter OMG!!!


    Edit to add, I thought i'd better tell you who she is:

    "Karen Rohlf trained over 20 years in dressage with Anne Gribbons ('O' dressage judge, International Grand Prix trainer and competitor) and studied Parelli Natural Horsemanship directly with Pat and Linda Parelli.

    She has trained horses and students to the upper levels of dressage, represented the USA 4 times on the Young Riders team, passed her USDF 'L' judge test with distinction, and was accepted into the USEF 'r' judge program.

    She now divides her time between traveling the world giving clinics and training at home at her Temenos Fields in Ocala, Florida."
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2009
  14. Merlin

    Merlin Well-known Member

    Well the day I see halters and leads at the olympic's in Dressage I will eat my words**)

    PP is really selling himself short he could make a squillion in made to measure halters and leads for the Garryowen;)
  15. FDPH

    FDPH Guest

    Well considering what I watched today on dressage (nice blue tongue!!!) perhaps they should ride in halters! ROFL!!! And as for the Garryowen well I might be green but I'm not a cabbage ( perhaps you should have used a better example than the Garryoween) ROFL!!!
  16. GeeJay

    GeeJay Guest

    I do remember I won a dressage test once (KC will remember LOL) I was riding in a bosal and I lost a few points for my horse avoiding the bit, couldn't work that one out LOL, granted it was all in fun.

    This is all becoming a little I can you can't and we do and you should, when all it really boils down to is the fact every one has different goals and paths they follow.

    I follow the path I have done for over 45 yrs and that is respect for others and most of all my horses oh and always willing to learn, but I do find the horse is our best teacher when you look them straight in the eye or see that twitch of the ear, they tell you everything you should need to know.

    My most wonderful friend is at the moment over east as she is a PP enthusiast and I am sure is going to be very savvy when she gets home LOL, but one thing is for sure she respects me and I most certainly respect her and in her 60's she was and always will be a wonderful caring horse person and what I really love about her she never blows her trumpet about PP.

    When I said Normal Horsemanship that's what it means to me as its always been my life. Its normal to me.

    Cheers :))
  17. TobanMokey736

    TobanMokey736 Well-known Member

    heheeeeeee I was just telling him I'd do anything for love.... but I won't do that... :D:)**#)**)
  18. Merlin

    Merlin Well-known Member

    Why should I use a better example? Other than the fact it will never happen!!!! It is tradition and will never change.

    As for the "blue tongue" that is up to FEI officials to sort out, I don't do it, never would. It just seems to me that the people who do NH or whatever you want to call it like to throw stones at others who do not follow your methods, that they are doing it all wrong.

    If it works for you and you enjoy what you are doing and are forming a lasting bond with your horse then perfect job done. Dosen't mean that others cannot do the same "another way":))
  19. FDPH

    FDPH Guest

    So if you don't agree why are you here trying to take the p&^%s, you ask a question you get an answer and you take the mickey. You have been the one to throw the stones, if you go back to earlier posts I said I dont give a tinkers damn what you do and no one has said you 've done the wrong thing that is your perception of the entire thread.. again... don't like it don't post simple.
  20. KC Quarter Horses

    KC Quarter Horses Gold Member

    LMAO Geejay, I remember that dressage test very well & i was a bit confused about your horse avoiding the bit, since he didn't have one on LOL......but he worked very well in the Bosal & his workout really couldn't be faulted.....which is why you won it of course.
    You will of course remember Duchess, the dam of little Mowgli.....she has never been ridden in a bit while we have had her as her mouth was damaged by very hard hands prior to us getting her.
    So she has only ever been ridden by us in a halter or bitless bridle & she is a lovely soft mount, although can get a little excited in a SJ track.
    We took her once to a PC run jumping day but were not allowed to jump her unless we put her in a bit, which of course we never do, but those ere the rules so we didn't jump her that day.
    Interestingly we were told she must be ridden in a bit for safety purposes.....ummmm this mare performs much better & is far safer in a bitless or a halter LOL
    Of course with all out horses we would actually like to actually have the option to ride in whatever we wanted to......but rules are rules so for her we only took her EFA as bitless bridles are permitted under EFA rules :)

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