My New Theory .. Suggestions? :)

Discussion in 'Problem Horses' started by Teah, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. Teah

    Teah New Member

    Sorry not sure if I said that the stronger bit was a sweetmouth? That's what I had him in before I tried the french on him a few months ago. He definitely likes the action of it better? Think he's just used to it and not the french? He's perfectly manageable in the french but he likes the sweetmouth better. I ride him in it most days now when I'm not just riding him around in a halter and leadrope and he's very content with it so I don't think I'll change him again! I won't put him in anything stronger. He doesn't need it. He's back to his normal self now and is very responsive to my seat and legs again so must've just been a phase ';'
  2. Diana

    Diana Gold Member

    Fair enough :)

    I must say that my pony used to have a plain eggbutt snaffle but got REALLY strong out on trail rides (I'm rather strong in the upper body & still had trouble pulling her up & even doing ORS, even in the "arena") so I put a sweetmouth in and she hasn't looked back. She's awesome now.

    I think sweetmouth is handy because the horse doesn't just forget about it...they taste it, leading to them producing saliva & actually feeling the bit in their mouth (my line of thinking here is that when a horse's tongue is dry it goes numb...).

    So perhaps I was wrong in jumping on you for changing the bit.
    Because it's not necessarily HARSHER, just makes him more responsive. Although sweetmouths tend to be thinner.
    I think the main part I was worried about was that you said it was harsher :p :S

    Actually Danni's wasn't that much thinner.. It's got a fairly thick mouth piece....

  3. Teah

    Teah New Member

    Haha sorry I thought I mentioned that it wasn't a kimbelwick or pelham or anything like that!

    I think he's just used to the pressure in his pallet with the action of the sweetmouth. He definitely likes it a lot more. Or maybe he's just getting to know me more. I've only had him since April.

    But I've gone from having to literally taking 45 mins to catch him and then having to try and get on for about 20 and then having spaccos.

    To walking up to him in a massive paddock, sometimes he'll walk and canter over to me, vaulting on and then trotting or walking calmly across a paddock. And he always stands entirely still when I get on and he's a very lovely young man to ride. :S I must be doing something remotely right haha.

    Yeh I'm only quite small but do have quite good core strength so I'm mostly ok with Rosco. Out bush he still reefs and all the rest of it. But he's never been out the bush with another horse though so I think if he went out with another horse and learnt that it was fun then he'd be ok.
  4. IPPH

    IPPH New Member

    Regarding the well known Aussie eventer comment ... unless you have ridden at the same level as her, have sat on the horse she is talking about and have her skill and experience, then you ought to respect her opinion.

    A bit is only as harsh as the hands that hold it.

    I would far rather have a stronger bit on an educated competition horse (NOT i repeat NOT a green or badly ridden and confused horse) that gets a bit hot under the collar when jumping or going xc so that I can ask softly than have to be harder in a snaffle ... something I see alot. And it drives me insane.

    Not EVERY horse can go in a snaffle ... and not every rider is able to have a suitably independent seat and soft hands to either ride that sort of horse period or be trusted with a leverage type bit. I believe in fixing the rider before the horse, but some horses, particularly very keen, talented, elite comp horses are like freight trains xc.

    It is very easy to bag people who put themselves in the public eye. I am sure that alot of the methods you use at home could come up for scrutiny too! Not aimed at anyone in particular, just a generalisation :)
  5. GoneRama

    GoneRama Gold Member

    Mmmm not aimed at anyone in particular?! Right, considering that I was the only one to make that comment I consider that it is safe to assume that it is aimed at me regardless of your closing sentence. I do believe we live in a free country (last time I checked) and who we respect is entirely up to us, no one can tell us who we ought to respect or not, it is up to the individual and it is one of the many wonderful things of this country of ours that we can respect who we like and NOT get into trouble with it. I'm sure that there are people who do not agree with some of my methods but it personally doesn't worry me.

    I do agree with you that the bit is only as harsh as the hands that use it, I was just surprised at such a comment coming from a rider of that level in a public document. Perhaps I worded what I had to say wrongly, perhaps I should have said that that rider went down a little in my estimation. Yes I was a little harsh, now that I re-read it. She is a good rider, any rider at that level would have to be and she does turn in some lovely lovely dressage tests, I was just immensely shocked at this comment, that is all.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2010
  6. GoneRama

    GoneRama Gold Member

    :)* Great to hear, it is easy for one to get their mords wuddled. Thanks for the clarification and apologies if I offended, it certainly isn't my intention.
  7. IPPH

    IPPH New Member

    GoneRama, I was not aiming to offend, my apologies if I have. My 'not aimed at anyone in particular' comment was meant to refer to 'what others may do could come under scrutiny', not the actual whole post, but it may have read that way.

    Also not suggesting that you should respect and admire her if her riding is not your cup of tea, just to understand that she may be coming from somewhere different from your perspective :)))
  8. sparkie

    sparkie Well-known Member

    too true.. it just esculates the problem.. there is a main problem which has caused all of this.. you need to peel it down and work with what you have not with what might comes next...

    i think the vicious circle bgan before you even got this horse..
  9. Teah

    Teah New Member

    Yeh I'm thinking that too. Probably from back in his racing career. But I choose to buy ex race horses and so will take the problems they often come with!!

    I'm just thinking that he's never had a proper constant rider before. Well not a rider but I dunno a friend maybe?? He's a different horse now. And he had antlers with bells on yesterday that he was fully cool with me putting them on him. The trust has just gone through the roof :).
  10. Brew

    Brew Well-known Member

    Antlers and bell?????????
    Is this horse a toy or an eventer ??? You say you have desperate need of this horse to event next season - If he had chucked a wobbly you could have lost him to another long injury.Perhaps your time would be better spent learning about schooling horses !!!!!!
  11. Teah

    Teah New Member

    I'm sorry that's a really mean thing to say. Obviously I didn't just walk up to him in a paddock and whack antlers on him.
  12. eventkid1

    eventkid1 Well-known Member

    This thread is to help and give advise not be rude and horrible.
  13. Brew

    Brew Well-known Member

    This is not mean- Stupid is as stupid does
  14. eventkid1

    eventkid1 Well-known Member

    So you're saying that anyone who dresses up their horse, is stupid? i think not.
  15. Sugar's Mum

    Sugar's Mum Gold Member

    Dont agree with you Brew.

    The more challenging things you expose you horse to the more calm and happy they are.

    Stupid is as stupid does is a really harsh way of saying "I wouldn't have done that becuase I would be worried the horse might be hurt"

    Trouble with harsh wording is that it shuts people off from being able to hear what you are saying.

    Hope you have a better day then it started as.
  16. Teah

    Teah New Member

    Yes the horse could've been hurt if he did react stupidly to the antlers. But you are implying I'm completely horse illiterate. He could break his leg cantering across a paddock. This happened to a retired horse of mine about 4 years ago. Slipped on a honkey nut.

    It's not unusual to go to a show where there are clydies being driven with bells on them, so at least young Rosco is used to them, not that I'd ever hack him, but would show jump.

    I didn't just walk up to him, chuck them on his head and then let him deal with it. I had them on at first and was just giving them some attention in the paddock like I do all the time.

    Jumbo being Jumbo was obviously weirded out by them so I didn't go near him with them. Rosco and Andy were loving them though, sniffing and licking them and they were jingling in the wind and they didn't care. I didn't try them on Andy as he was mistreated with previous owners and ear twitched severely and is now fine around his head.

    But I took them off me and let Rosco play with them for a bit and was jingling them all around his face and up around his ears, in front and behind and he was cool with them so I put them on him and he didn't care at all.

    Horses aren't just performance machines. They're nice friends too. So don't go jumping on your high horse just because yes granted you more than likely do have more experience with horses being older and I do have a lot to learn in the way of schooling and teaching but no one EVER stops learning. But I've been around horses 18 years and have been riding that long too so I must know something.
  17. Brew

    Brew Well-known Member

    Hi Teah
    Sorry if I offended you !!
    I read this thread with great interest and some misgivings. Please correct me if I am wrong but so far :
    You have owned the horse scince April. In that time you have had several issues with lameness. Time you have owned him during competition season is about 6 months. The horse has not had an easy time - you say you evented him earlier this year at prelim or 1* - I couldn't work out which. You also state that you have jumped up to 1.30m. In an early outing you say he bolted with you etc etc. I also read your comments about seperation anxiety in another thread, You state that this horse has hissy fits regularlarily and nobody else is game to ride him. This thread is posted in the problem horse section which suggests you have problems. You state that you have to take this horse east for 12 months early Feb and it has to perform in order to complete your course. I also read that you love this horse and then I read he is for sale?? Or is this another horse ?
    I see many people taking time to give you good advise which always meets with "yes but" Suddenly, in the space of a few days your problems are cured ??
    It is not my intention to be mean but I think you need to take a step back and look at what you are doing. I have a mental image of a really nice young lady who we would all like to know and I for one would not like to see you hurt !!!!
    You need this horse to be right for your course and I would advise that you work on his schooling as has been said many times in this thread. I would not take even a slight risk if I were you.
    In conclusion you state that this horse has been eventing for 2 years so I would speak to whoever competed him in 2009 and see if you can find some answers
  18. Teah

    Teah New Member

    I've spoken to his previous owners and a fair few people that knew the horse before hand and it all comes back to horse and owner not getting along. Which is entirely understandable. I've owned many horses that I've simply not been able to get along with and they've been sold on and found their perfect homes.

    I'll start from the very beginning as it does jump all over the place.

    I bought him in April, my eventer had to be suddenly retired and I wasn't looking but then got told about Rosco and thought why not.

    Tried him, jumped him, he wasn't perfect but I had a really good feeling about him. Picked him up the next day, discovered he'd been getting fed 6kg oats/day at the agistment centre (OMG).

    Got him home, took him to a training day the next weekend. Impeccably behaved, trained a touch of Pre Nov and Prelim.

    Took him for a stretch out the bush the next day and motorbikes came towards him, he reared came down hard and spun and tore the sheath of his tendon? I wasn't at the vets - I was at work.

    4 weeks entire rest. 2 weeks light work. Came back into work as expected - Bit spaccy. Which got worse. Took him off all feed. He was better. Took him to Log Fence for an event Intro 1. Not pleasant. Retired xc. Clear sj and good dressage.

    He started getting better. Took him to Busso Intro 1. Excellent dressage. Finished on dressage score to come 2nd.

    Was going excellent. Took him to Narrogin. Lovely dressage. Clear xc but he was a nutter to warm up. 1 pole sj.

    Then went to have a lesson with Sue Ellis and he warmed up fine. she was running late so I hopped off to let him have a rest. Hopped back on and he was sore in all 4 feet with raging pulses.

    Diagnosed as protein or concussive laminitis. Then he started getting worse.

    All through this it'd take me 45 mins to catch him and then another 20 mins to get on. Once I was on he was either fine or weird.

    Changed his diet slowly to just chaff and speedi beat and a few minerals. No difference jumping. Still a right naughty young man.

    Lovely dressage tests though.

    He slowly started to calm and I could get on him with him not moving. Still couldn't catch him.

    Then one day he just started walking up to me and letting me catch him so I let him out in the big paddock and he'd still walk up to me. But he still wasn't happy jumping (I'm talking trot poles that I was doing!!) And I was attempting one rein stops, walking him out the bush, trying advice from lovely stockies and he was getting better and worse fluctuating.

    Took him to the Megan Jones clinic. He was a bit naughty in the first lesson showjumping so she asked me to come back and show jump again. And you would not believe it was the same horse. Impeccably behaved. Loving jumping. And he's been the same ever since.

    He actually wants to be around me. He canters up to me in the paddock. Chases poor little Andy away if he tries for attention from me. I can vault on him in the paddock and walk or trot him over to the gate or just lead him. Or he'll just follow me over.

    My boyfriend actually hopped on him yesterday (never ridden before) and Rosco didn't put a foot wrong.

    He's currently only in moderate work as I don't want to build him up too much before he gets trucked over east. But he's the best he's ever been. He's currently only on grass and hay as well though.

    I didn't change anything when he decided he'd let me catch him or anything either? No idea what happened?

    Oh and in between that we discovered he has grass grabbers or something? His face swells up like a puffin and it's gravity affected and just drains out?? Noo idea really but Larkhill said it won't affect him at all - Just happens!
  19. Brew

    Brew Well-known Member

    I really do wish you well and hope that you achieve your goals.
    A small bit of advise from an old head who has known the good and the bad in the sport-

    There are no easy roads to your goal. A horse is a horse and does not have many human emotions. We have a duty to explain our want's to the horse in a language they can understand. This is called training.
  20. Teah

    Teah New Member

    Each to their own on that idea I suppose. My bowen therapist I get for Rosco suggested to me to just straight out tell him about what's going on with the trip to Melbourne etc and how nice it is at Marcus. So I thought hey why not what have I got to lose and he started getting better after that so take what you want out of it but I have a very happy little horse now?

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