Magic update

Discussion in 'Training Horses' started by ShowjumpKid4Eva, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. ShowjumpKid4Eva

    ShowjumpKid4Eva Well-known Member

    ^ started from the ground and worked my way up, of course. I've done it before with great results. All about the timing. You put the pressure on and the moment the horse gives you the response you want, you release. Magic will give laterally and vertically and didn't need to be taught reinback - it was just a result of the mouthing work that I did. She has a very soft mouth. I started with a full cheek snaffle, and she is now in a D-ring.
     
  2. Brucey

    Brucey New Member

    I'm sorry, I don't mean to nag, but that's a very vague response?:unsure:
    I was hoping for some details, eg: you used a roller, did exercises A,B,C on day one two and three and then long reins, along with excercises D,E,F...do you get what I mean? Did you follow a certain trainer's methods or did you use your own?

    An FM bit is probably the best bit to mouth a horse in IMO, and to ride a green horse in for the first few weeks.:)
     
  3. ShowjumpKid4Eva

    ShowjumpKid4Eva Well-known Member

    I just used my own common sense. Started by showing her the responses I wanted to the pressure on the bit, then put her in long lines, then got on her back. I taught her to give laterally and vertically, very easily, by making sure that the moment she gave so did I.

    I mouthed her over a number of sessions, with a break in between of a few months due to her issues getting in the way [physical and mental].

    I can't explain what I did because I did it on feel.
     
  4. Brucey

    Brucey New Member

    Ok, well common sense and feel are good, and it helps to have both when you set out to mouth a horse. BUT you also need a structured method, and you don't seem to have one ';' .
    I can say with confidence based on what you have said, that the horse is by no means mouthed. Yes she may be giving to pressure, but that does not mean she has been adequately mouthed, and you will see this when a situation arises and she is put under pressure, be it through her experiencing a fright, or simply because horses test the boundaries at times, then learn to evade.
    You will not win a tug of war contest with her, and the solid foundation of a good mouthing method is essential and probably the most important part of breaking in. You only get one go at it, and if you don't do it properly, things will come unstuck down the track and you will have a whole new set of issues, not to mention the fact that an improperly mouthed horse is a danger to itself and its rider.
    If I were you I would invest in HP's mouthing DVD, even an amateur can follow it....:)
     
  5. ShowjumpKid4Eva

    ShowjumpKid4Eva Well-known Member

    To each their own I guess, I'm not a big fan of Mr HP as a whole - though I will readily say some of his methods are absolutely wonderful and should be a part of every rider's toolkit.

    Not knowing anything about his method I can't say I'm especially keen to spend money on something I may not actually use, but surely I have a friend somewhere who'd be willing to let me borrow a copy of the DVD.

    I assure you she is properly mouthed, she's not the first I've done and the first is just as soft and just as consistent over a year down the track [I mouthed Satin as a yearling because I personally prefer the look of a bitted bridle for in-hand showing over a filly slip, and they need to be properly mouthed before you show them in-hand with a bit] so I can't be doing too horrible a job, surely?

    I'm starting to remember more about the bucking fit and the more I remember the more certain I am that her mouth had absolutely nothing to do with it, I only had a halter on her and how are you supposed to haul a head up with a halter? [as mentioned I don't use the one rein stop anymore]

    I feel like perhaps she's mildly cold-backed. I usually lunge her for a few laps each way, with a saddle on, before I get on. For some reason when she bucked me off I didn't do that. She's not sore, I've checked. The saddle fit isn't perfect but not SO bad that I'd expect her to be cold-backed because of that. I just wonder if it's sensitive red TB filly syndrome combined with the time she went over the round yard fence, about 2 weeks after I got her? That could do it.
     
  6. NaeNae87

    NaeNae87 Well-known Member

    The vast majority of cold backed and girthy horses are that way due to pain or discomfort
     
  7. South Boulder Boy

    South Boulder Boy Well-known Member

    Just a question (and anyone can answer) but I thought Satin wasn't broken yet (your mum wanted to lose weight or Wait til satin was older or something hence getting the gelding???) so with that in mind how can you be 100% certain she is mouthed correctly without her ever being under saddle? I would think just a bridle on in hand every now and then would not be an adequate indication? But I don't start horses only work with ones fresh out the breakers so what would I know.
     
  8. GoneRama

    GoneRama Gold Member

    SJK4E just stop for a bit and go back to Blitzens post several pages ago about only giving the information that is needed. You don't know everything, you've mouthed one horse that is not under saddle yet, enroll in the possibility that you may have fluked things with Satin (which is kinda hard to tell at this stage).

    In response to your query about how you pull a horses head up from an attempted buck in halter well if you weren't so resistant to the one rein stop you'd be able to answer your own question there! You may have even been able to get her head up. How do I know this? Well I've been there, I've been on the young horse in a halter who has gone to duck the head and goodness me I've been able to pull that head up.

    Please, step away from this thread and stop loading those magazines for everybody to fire back at you.

    ETA: I say the above for your own good because I would hate to see this thread end up the same way as all your other threads.... locked and or deleted. There's some good information in here for others that would be a shame to lose.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2013
  9. racehorsemad

    racehorsemad New Member

    Getting a yearling to accept a bit doesn't mean it's properly mouthed, take yearling thoroughbreds for example, they learn to accept the bit for yearling sales and handling etc, but they are in no way 'mouthed' or 'broken'
    Different thing entirely.
     
  10. old_mate

    old_mate Well-known Member

    The thing that you are doing wrong is posting this stuff at all, don't post about what you are doing with Magic, find someone in RL to give you help when you need it.
    Cause on here you are going to get a mixed bag of advise from an interesting range of people. Not to mention your special friends who will find fault with what you post no matter what.
     
  11. Brucey

    Brucey New Member

    :blink:
    You cant possibly assure me or anyone else with half a clue of any such thing.
    You have no method, your 'winging it' by your own description, and that is not 'properly mouthed' by anyone's standard.
    As I said, it will come unstuck at some point. You are setting yourself and the horse up for failure, and it is dangerous.

    I can get my young unbroken Colt to move away from the lightest pressure of my fingers on the ground, and he will even side pass, does that mean I can say he has been taught to leg yield properly? No it doesn't. He also accepts the bit and Ive had a bridle on him a number of times, but that does not mean he is mouthed. I am preparing him for things to come by following training techniques, its a process, and you cant skip steps and expect a half decent result...nor can you mouth a horse properly from in the saddle!
    Your not following any training methods or steps, your blindly feeling your way around without any clear direction.

    On one hand you say your not a fan of HP as a whole, yet you also say you know nothing about his mouthing method? By all means have your opinion on it either way, but at least make it an educated one. How can you not like something you know nothing about? ';'

    I made the suggestion for the benefit of the horse, because the method works and its as plain as day you are not qualified to be breaking her in, and yes we all have to start somewhere, but you cant teach yourself when you don't know what your doing.
    I had the benefit of learning from older family members, and stockmen I grew up around. I sought out people I could learn from, and learn I did.
    Perhaps it would be a good idea if you find someone who can teach you before you try to teach the horse.
    That's all I'm going to say, I need to go look for a brick wall to bang my head on...*#)
     
  12. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    I'll be less "nice".......sorry, but you don't have any idea about putting theory into practise. I think saying you are 'winging it' is an understatement.

    My concern is the end result of all your brainstorming. You are not offering your horse the best possible start, nor are you setting it up to be the best possible horse it can be. What ultimately happens is that these horses are onsold or leased or change hands or whatever - and end up being given the label that they should have got from you! That is "green broke and unreliable". What they then endure at the hands of people who are expecting more is the stuff of nightmares, and THIS is all you are offering this animal.
    Your horse is a prime example of people thinking they can do more than they are capable of.

    No harm in not knowing........but big harm in not waking up to that fact for the benefit of the horse.

    Your poor horse is going to be the product of everything you lack. All I can say is poor horse, and poor any subseqent horses you take on.
     
  13. Macchiato

    Macchiato Well-known Member

    My concern is that you will get yourself seriously injured.
     
  14. mod 7

    mod 7 Moderator

    LISTEN UP :mad:

    You can offer advice and opinion and even disagree but do so in a respectful manner.
     
  15. Spider n Toby

    Spider n Toby Gold Member

    The only thing ill say SJK4eva is this... I've been riding for 10 years, had 2 horses and thought I knew a bit... Then I had 4 years off and yesterday had my first dressage lesson and WOW does it show how much I DO NOT know, I hardly know Anything so luckily I can be like a sponge and soak up as much as I can, this is what you should be doing - stop thinking you know everything we are so lucky to have the people we do on stockies use it to your advantage.
     
  16. Blackbat

    Blackbat Well-known Member

    It's entertaining reading. None of us are any more able to accept SJ's decisions, than SJ is able to accept our advice or cautions. Hardheaded bunch aren't we?

    Oh well, I'm sure we will read further the hits and misses that go hand in hand with trial and error training, in the hands of the learner teacher. Most of us have taken a similar path, at some point in some way, that's how we all became so wise and wrinkly.

    Time to breathe out, take a glass of something comforting to wash away any sense of personal responsibility, and watch the world go by because we can't stop it turning and the sun rising...
     
  17. GoneRama

    GoneRama Gold Member

    Well this has been an interesting read.

    When it's all said and done I still stand by my initial comments. SJK4E you are riding nicely and that video you put up, yep, a very sweetly going little horse. In this thread is some very good information that everyone can read and learn something from whether it's what to do or what not to do. I have it on very good authority that some information in this thread has indeed been put into practice and benefited a reader.
     
  18. Floggadog

    Floggadog Guest

    And for that I thankyou GoneRama. Diamonds will stay with me for ever :D

    Keep sharing your knowledge, I for one appreciate you taking the time. :)
     
  19. GoneRama

    GoneRama Gold Member

    Diamonds may be a girls best friend but they're not necessarily a riders :lol:
     
  20. old_mate

    old_mate Well-known Member

    Not so Gonerama very handy to have a large rock or two to pawn or sell in case of a large vet bill.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013

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