Discussion in 'Training Horses' started by widgelli, Dec 18, 2002.

  1. beccy

    beccy Well-known Member

    lunging with 2 reins is long reining, but it is still lunging, as you are using the same principals, just developing the communication further. and still asking the horse to travel around you in a circular type shape.... and you are less likely to get kicked so it is a lot safer

  2. Murray

    Murray Well-known Member Staff Member

    I found this topic to be very informative and I am sure others who have not had a chance to read it will also. Therefore, I have made this post to get it back at the top for a while.

    <font face="Brush Script MT"><span style="font-size:22pt;">Murray</span></font>
  3. Denny

    Denny Well-known Member

    This is a great topic Murray!!!

    If Sil is still about... What is a biting rig? And is it only used on young horses or can it be used on all horses?

  4. The Old Grey Mare

    The Old Grey Mare Active Member

    i must agree with Sil, re people stop long reining because of a problem, but will get back on a horse.

    any type of work with horses can be dangerous, it is up to the individual to make it safe for themselves, the horse & others. i have seen people get in a mess with 1 lunge rope because they did not have control of the situation, same as people riding, if you are not in control, then the horse must be in control & that can be dangerous. someone is in charge at all times, make sure it is you....

    i suppose there are many methods to accomplish the same results. stick with what you are good at/what works for you & then learn new methods to improve your knowledge.
  5. sil

    sil Gold Member

    I don't know if the bitting rig is used outside the Saddlebred industry at all, as most all people I describe it to kinda scratch their heads and look at me... lol

    Basically imagine the horse has a bit and a roller on. Now imagine there is a cord from one bit ring to the other, loose under the horses chin, with a round metal ring threaded through it. Next, imagine there is a cord tied to the roller on one side, passes through the metal ring on the bit cord, and ties back to the roller on the other side.

    The horse can turn his head from side to side freely, but the same effect as the side reins comes into effect if he pushes his nose out. Over time you bring the cord shorter until the horse is comfy at the vertical. The rig is worn in the stable everyday for 1/2 an hour.

    There is more to it than that, but that is the gist =)

    ~ Do as much as it takes, do as little as it takes. ~
  6. Ali

    Ali Well-known Member

    That bitting ring sounds like it works really well.When you think about it, it makes more sense to use something like that with more freedom of movement than side reins that can be abit restrictive. I am currently having problems with my younger TB mare when it comes to lunging her on the right rein in canter. I am getting her checked out and a sports massage before I pursue it anymore but she will only canter about 2 strides before slamming the brakes on and turning in towards me.She does it both with and without side reins on and is too quick for me to get behind her and send her forwards. She lunges really well in 3 paces on the left rein and will walk and trot fine on the right rein but not canter! Anyone have any ideas?? I'd love to see if she does it 'loose lunging' but I don't have access to a round yard.

  7. widgelli

    widgelli Well-known Member

    She could have a problem with her back , but sounds to me that because she is not balanced yet , she doesn't like to canter on that side. I have these sorts of problems with the younger horses , and this is where I have found the pair of long reins so useful.
    By passing the outside rein through the ring on the breaking roller and around the hindquarters on the horse , you have the drive behind. This then gives the horse the inclination to go forward a lot better.
    The inside rein is then used to control the horse infront. I have also found that a whip is not needed when lunging is done this way for a while , so you dont have to worry about having three

  8. Ali

    Ali Well-known Member

    That's a good idea. I'm hopefully getting her checked out at the end of the week but to be honest she doesn't seem sore anywhere.I think that it could be a balance thing like what you said as she sometimes tends to rush undersaddle.I refer to her as "young TB mare"as my other TB mare is older but she is actually 7 but mentally she seems about 4. She'd been backed to race,had an accident during training that scared her off racing then was used as a brood mare (for Anglo Arabs)from the age of 3 till when I bought her as a 6 year old. So she's basically very green.

  9. beccy

    beccy Well-known Member

    definately agree with jo. you have much more control with the outside to keep her on going.

    also as she is still a bub, and racing they only go one way, mabey she has never really cantered that way, and the feeling is just over whelmiing at the moment. horsesnt arent like us, and cant do one thing one way and beable to convert it to the otherside. cantering to the other side to her would be like asking her to use chopsticks..... for the time being. use lots of repition in the training (even if it means asking in the same spot each time). and just be happy if she canters- the correct lead will come in time. it may seem a bit hard for her at first, but after a few times things will start to click... and you will see the light and the face "oh thats what you ment"

  10. widgelli

    widgelli Well-known Member

    You will find that as the mare starts to canter more on that side she will do it a lot more easily. Also , the rein on the outside gives her a better sense of security.
    As she starts to canter more on that side, shorten the reins so that she wil then have to lead on the correct leg naturally.
    A horse is like us , they are either left handed or right handed , or should I say off balanced or near balanced, so it takes a while for them to balance of with quite a lot of practice.
    You will notice that some of the race horses find the going hard on some of the tracks in Australia. In N.S.W , the horses gallop clockwise , where in VIC and SA they gallop the opposite direction.
    A friend of mine who used to breed race horses would balance them before they were raced, and would not race them till they were 4. The jockeys loved to ride them , because of the education they had had before they hit the track.

  11. Goldpally

    Goldpally Active Member

    I think it is an individual thing - everyone is different about what they want to "get out" of lungeing ! I think it is good for discipline ie. walk on, trot on , whoa ( and stay there til I tell you to move ) but I do not see the point of chasing a young horse around a round yard or on the lunge when there is no purpose involved especially if the horse is not conformed to any shape and just going around whilst looking at the sky and paying no attention to the handler - who the horse should respect as if they were on its back . I prefer horse to follow a more long and low kind frame whilst being lunged and save the collection for when you are on their back and using your legs to push them through the hindquarters .
    Being involved in harness means there is a lot of emphasis placed on long-reining , which is beneficial as it is works on aspects such as steering and flexion but not placing as much strain on the horses joints as endless smaller circles will do .
  12. beccy

    beccy Well-known Member

    Lunging for me is wonderful for young horses. It teaches them to go forward without weight on the back. luning isnt just about doing circles at 3 set paces. that is incrediably borning. lunge yards are handy to start off, then you can lunge in the arena, on rectangles, corners, over trot polls and jumps. You can teach your horse leg yeild, half halts, carry himself, roundness, stretching, collection, and even piaffe can be started on the lunge. flying changes are a little harder, and more done in long rein or when lunging an experienced rider, to improve the quality. it gives the horse a chance gain ballance and obediance without the interferance of a rider on his back. Tb's need to be lunged soo much before they really do too much work, especially as their bodies are usually unevenly developed. you can always teach your horse everything on top, but the quality you get from starting on top, and from starting on the ground never equal. Sometimes establishing the basics and reinforcing them some more really really pay off in the long run. if you get bored.... make it interesting [​IMG]

    The equipment isnt important, but its how its done is. You must have and established constistant contact 100% of the time like if you were riding. (the amount of times i see at royals and other warm ups horses being lunged on loose reins!!!! what do they want to achieve?) then you need your driving aid - the whip - which replaces the leg. and you need your hand held like it is a normal riding rein, and your body should be facing his belly. too much infront and he will stop. too much behind and he will go. in the middle spot, he will communicate with u and you will be incontrol. (theoretically of course)

    There are some wonderful books, resources on line, and videos about lunging that are really good. off the top of my head Arthor Kottas has 2. one for the horse and one for the rider. And dwight pedlow, claire hechy, even phillipa collier are wonderful lungers if you need more help. (unfortunately as far as i have seen these are the only 3 that are really good in wa)

  13. widgelli

    widgelli Well-known Member

    I found that by lungeing a young horse with the side reins set at where the hands would be , the headstall on with the long reins to start with , I could get the top coming on properly long before we actually started to ride the horse.
    We always mouthed the horse first then spent around 10 mins to start with , gradually building up to no more than 25 mins.
    This way the horse learned to work forward , and obey voice commands. When it came to time to back them , they were easier to get to move forward with a weight on their backs.
    We would also do a lot of what Beccy has described in her last post.
    When the horse was first backed , and had started to move forward , we would sometimes put the horse and rider on the lunge to enforce a lesson.
    I know of a chap , who is dead now , but he educated a horse to show on the lunge to voice commands . He was a paraplegic, so had lno use of his legs to work the horse with . This horse and rider won many Champion Hack classes .

  14. Goldpally

    Goldpally Active Member

    That is a good point of view . I am not bagging lungeing in general but I think that is should be left to he more experienced handler so that everyone benefits from it . This is one of the reasons that new rules are being bought in about competeing at National PC Level is that you must have cmpleted your C certificate .
  15. beccy

    beccy Well-known Member

    great [​IMG] they should make lunging part of the C syllobus (even if it is only lunging each other) to show understanding.
    Lunging is very hard to start off with. it involves lots of co-ordination (like pat your head and rub your stomach) because of this a lot of people stop. especially when young horses become confused, and keeping the rein knot free, whip rolled and tucked under your arm whilst changing the rein is hard. but practice pays off.

  16. Denny

    Denny Well-known Member

    I can never understand when someone says "I don't have time to ride so I'll lunge instead". ????

    It take me just as much time to lunge one of my horses as it does to ride one and is just as much hard work for me and them.

    These people are usually the ones who lunge their horse wearing thongs and no gloves and just let the horse run circles around them.

    There is a property near me that has a lunge yard... in the lunge yard is a stool for the person to sit on while "lunging" their horse...........What the??
  17. sil

    sil Gold Member

    LOL Are you serious Denny???? Sit and lunge??? *google eyes*

    ~ Do as much as it takes, do as little as it takes. ~
  18. Denny

    Denny Well-known Member

    I know.... bizare isn't it!!!!!

    Hey maybe she she knows something we don't Sil!!!
  19. Arnie

    Arnie Gold Member

    I saw sum1 once...walked there horse to the middle of the paddock where a chair was. Sat down and simply raised is arm so as the horse bolted..."Bolted" around he wouldn't get tangled...

  20. widgelli

    widgelli Well-known Member

    The chap the I was writing about who was crippled and trained a horse to show used to do it in his wheelchair. Dont as me how , as I really dont know. He had full control , and it was from him that I learned one hell of a lot about educating and lungeing .
    He used to ride this horse himself , and had a special saddle that he used.


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