Discussion in 'Training Horses' started by Brew, May 3, 2011.
Now I am totally confused!';'
People spend their time controlling the front end of the horse when they should be controlling the back end. They spend time on working on the front end instead of the back end.**)
Agreed Beagle a horse doesn't neccasarily have to follow his nose, not with softness and correctness anyway.
I still wanna know what that tongue business is all about ! It's not a trick question , I'm intrigued
My old man always told me as a kid, "One end bites, one end kicks and the middle is uncomfortable to sit on".
Yes too many people just don't push their horse out and concentrate too much on other things.
A horse does not follow it's nose full stop. it follows it's shoulder.
i'll beg to differ then davrac & say that a horse should follow it's nose. anything else is unbalanced. this is my opinion & i have formed it from many trainers' examples in mainly cutting & campdrafting. all of whom say the same.
Just stating that through PERSONAL experience at National level we impliment what we preach. And no it is not in the Quarter Horse world. Is in the english world of Dressage and Hacking with classes of 60-80+ horses. The people that know us KNOW EXACTLY what we have achieved and at what level.
What about reverse arcing then. Nose in one direction but moving in another. Following lead shoulder
reverse arc is a requested movement, not a correct way of going. surely in the dressage world you would know this? one changes diagonal with the reverse arc (if done at the trot, of course), requests the movement of leading with the shoulder, then when it changes back, it is referred to as the "correct bend" is it not?
try doing a roll-back or haunch turn without tipping the nose first, it'd be a helluva mess!
OMG who friggin cares what methods people choose to use';'...
I mean come on really.... I am into horsemanship and do you hear me harping on all your other methods out there, hell no... I respect what you want to do and i would never preach down your throat what I do, thats for the door knocker people to do on sundays*#)...
Its a very sad world when us humans cant have open minds about what works for some and doesnt for others, but to just sit back and put people down for doing what they love, enjoy, works or just plain cause they can(like sit on a bucket or side of a float and ask their horse to load) is down and out rude and disrespectful....
I normally keep very quiet but this has peeved me to the tee....
Oh yeah by the way today i had my horse out playing at the trott going over jumps, going sideways, spinning around, playing chasey, weaving in and out of cones, etc at liberty and ALL JUST BECAUSE I CAN.....
Its not the poor horses who have the problems here, its us narrow minded humans....
Sorry if i upset anyone....
see that's what i reckon is pointless, but you haven't upset me at all Chell & that is just my personal opinion which i'm allowed to have on a public forum.
To this end no-one is being terribly rude, in fact it has been interesting reading the 40 odd pages of personal opinions.
That was an extreme example to show that you do not follow your nose but the shoulder. Is much one in the same in reality but isn't when bio-mechanics come into it.
Actually our senior stallion is fully reining trained and there is no need to "tip" the nose.
Roll-back - have weight on the hocks and lay reins on the outside shoulder (neck) apply leg pressure and horse will procede to turn. No direct nose pressure given. When turning release rein pressure and redirect leg pressure and horse"rolls" out of the turn.
Haunch turn or spin. Sit square apply rein to outside shoulder (neck) and apply leg pressure to outside shoulder. No pressure on hindquarters so horse "moves" away from pressure thus spins. Release pressure and horse stops.
disagree davrac on your cues.
all very well for reining perhaps but not for Working Stockhorse, cutting or campdrafting.
so be it (shrugs shoulders).
Er, this this 'fun' the kind a cat has with a mouse, or like Russian chess players? I feel a bit hungry for cheese?
The tone has flown close to the wind a few times in this thread, and I have started to take offense at some comments... Until I remembered that offense and bullying from strangers can only hurt if I believe what they say.
Someone start a bend & flexion thread. I thought bend was in the body (more a shortening on one side and stretch on the other) and flexion was head and neck. And that you could ride with your bend and flex to the same or different sides, in any direction. In which case the horse always follows it's shoulder, and sometimes it's nose - unless it is going backwards when the HQ is the engine and leads the way, but they still follow the shoulder because it controls direction even backwards.
Agree, when just starting out you would tip the nose to give the cue to the direction you want the horse to go. But when advancing thru the training rein contact is all that is needed.
granted I am no expert in cutting but freinds compete and always thought they moved off leg not rein pressure until they tuned in. Then only subtle leg cues are needed as you hang on for ride. Reins are dropped whilst controlling beast? Please correct me if I am wrong.
having recently been to a few cutting clinics, the training of horses with cutting always starts with stop,rock back,tip the nose, then turn.
in competition sure the competitor puts hand down, holds on & horse works beast. reinforced by rider's leg subtlely hidden in long fringed chaps.which in essence just "encourages" horse to get the hell moving to catch up with beast.
but gotta walk before you can run! i will happily TRAIN my horse to tip nose,then follow nose, not drop shoulder & fall in. reason why young horses "fall" into a canter lead but more seasoned, balanced horses are asked to "pick up" a canter lead. wonder why that terminology is used?
Well you can talk about wanting to control the front end or the back end or whatever but as I nurse my bruised left side bordering on suffering severe left sided hemiplaegia I want to control the horses BRAIN!! Coz that is the part of her that shied and bolted when a sheep popped out of a bush behind us yesterday*#).
So you can do all the desensitising you like and thump as much NH into them that you like (I have a high suspicion this horse has had a lot of Mr P's methods used on her) BUT at the end of the day a horse is a horse. Yep they do follow thier nose and they can bend as they ditch you and bugger off up the road.
Can I borrow your velcro Brew hahaha?
Sorry just to change the subject:}, but noticed my name now has under it above my avatar "senior member"....
I didnt know turning 40 automatically made ya a senior*#) ROFLMAO....
PS: cant wait till I tell hubby hes about to become a senior too, omg what fun hehe......
Sorrybut my velcro broke and the legend with it in the water jump at Brookleigh on Sunday !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!