Lets Blue !!!

Discussion in 'Training Horses' started by Brew, May 3, 2011.

  1. Brew

    Brew Well-known Member

    I'm bored with tame threads so decided to dig up Mr P and NH !! If we are clever we can argue about this lots but remember to stay polite and on track to avoid lurking mod's !!!!!!
    I think that NH is a real load of rubbish which has no place in the horse world !!!
  2. ZaZa

    ZaZa Guest

    That last sentence is a pretty bold statement ! Leaves no doubt that you've gone into this with fists flying.
    I bags a ring side seat.
    Ding, ding, ding ..... let round 1 begin :D
  3. Excelsior Centerpiece

    Excelsior Centerpiece Well-known Member

    and in the might mighty black corner we have Boxin Brew comming out firing!!!

  4. Sorrel

    Sorrel Well-known Member

    go Brew, surely carrot sticks and 7 games whatever is a good way to make money ;)
  5. Freestyle

    Freestyle Well-known Member

    haha. Great morning tea read :}

    At ~ $150 for a "beginnner kit" its probably one of the best business ideas ever. (I wish I'd thought of it...)

    I guess some basic ideas are good - most exercises encourage the horse to become lighter to the various cues and probably teach the handler a little about timing. I think many of the problem solving techniques are common sense, but nobody put a catchy name on it before.

    Most people would use a variation of the "porcupine game" in most disciplines. We just say - move off pressure, but who would pay $70 for that video?
  6. Spider n Toby

    Spider n Toby Gold Member

    Who was it in that video of them basically beating the horse with the lead rope at the show..... oh yeah great "NATURAL" horsemanship...... :}
  7. Freestyle

    Freestyle Well-known Member

    hahaha yep that was terrible...

    Maybe that tb trainer who got fined for whacking his horse at the races should have said he was playing the 7 games *#)
  8. Floggadog

    Floggadog Guest

    I watched a P float training dvd a few months ago on my friends insistence & walked away with my jaw dropped!
    I've not watched anything P before & after watching a horse being run around in circles & whacked in the head with a flick of a very long rope, won't watch one again.

    Maybe I'm missing something ';' but I highly doubt it :D
  9. Sorry , no counter-punch's yet !

    When Mr P first came to prominence 20 odd yrs ago a friend and mentor of mine suggested I watch one of the videos with the volume turned down , so as to make a completely objective decision on what I was watching . Its worth doing ! It's hard not to notice that incredibly fine nylon strand cutting into the side of the horses face and into that tender spot right behind the horses poll . Hard also to dismiss the amount of jerking on that heavy lead rope and when he asked that horse to canter forward and deliberately let it run past a post so that the lead rope jerked tight and threw the poor buggers rump on a 180 degree trajectory , I switched the bloody thing off and have had no time for the man since !

    Take one of natures most gifted atheletes , turn it into a donkey and call it horsemanship ??? Why not just ride a bloody donkey and be done with it ? Or better yet a motorbike .:}
  10. GoneRama

    GoneRama Gold Member

    Meh I could throw some counter punches but I can't really be bothered. It comes down to being a free country, we are all entitled to our own opinions. Ok so some don't like P doesn't worry me, your choice. I personally like the system but in reality it's just what all the great old horseman have been using for years and someone had the smarts to package it up and market it. Good on him.
  11. Go the Distance

    Go the Distance Well-known Member

    My argument about Mr P is, 'Has he really improved horses lives by peddling his so called natural horsemanship?' I think not. Certian people grab this NH garb with both hands and flog it to death on thier poor horses.

    I hate to say it being a middle aged girl myself but I see a lot of middle aged women who want to relive thier childhood by getting a horse after many years of not having one getting right into Mr P's stuff. Almost as much as they get into looking at thier chakras, auras, naval gazing, having wild affairs and leaving thier long suffering husband's that have endured them for 20 years:D.

    Everyone interprets things differently. What we are MEANT to percieve when we watch a DVD and then when we take OUR interpretation out into the paddock can be very different indeed. I find this concerning. It is almost like learning to drive a car by watching Top Gear. When you have solid muscle and brain standing in front of you it is completely different than sitting on your butt on the lounge.

    As a generalisation Mr P seems to attract followers who often lack confidence and are looking for a leader themselves. Horses need leaders not someone looking for a leader. I have also seen people who continuously 'play the seven games' but actually never move on from that because they are too scared to jump up on the damn horse';'. Why do they continuously put themselves and the horse through the stress of trying to psyche themselves up to ride by flogging the poor horse with the seven games and then they chicken out in the end anyway and don't jump up? Just get on the horse and ride it for goodness sake and if your scared of it sell it, dog it, retire it and go buy one your not scared of. Maybe give up hassling horses all together and go breed guinea pigs.

    Great thread Brew**).
  12. Excelsior Centerpiece

    Excelsior Centerpiece Well-known Member

    BWAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHA oh i have SO much to look forward too!!!
  13. Brew

    Brew Well-known Member

    Damm - got called into work so missed some fun !!!!! This thread is a little tongue in cheek but should be fun - Come on NH guys -
  14. Brew

    Brew Well-known Member

    Thought you were already there EC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  15. lollipop

    lollipop Active Member

    Good thread Brew**) Totally agree Mr PP is an extremeley good marketer thats why he is a millionaire and others aren't.:) Has anyone ever seen him start colts NOt on one of his DVD's, actually he has ability as a horseperson just that he has targeted a good concept and mass marketed it as NH. don't go much on Mrs PP though think she should stick to.. I don't know what but not horses!:}
  16. ILoveClydesdales

    ILoveClydesdales Well-known Member

    Ok I'll go.... I am wondering if any of the people here that slam the NH way have actually even given it a shot?? I don't claim to be a NH practitioner at all, I practise common sense, however common sense requires me to at least have given something a go before I bag it out.
    I love the fact that my horse moves away from pressure, but isn't that what you have trained your horse to do?
    I love that my horse comes to me in the paddock, but isn't that what your horse does?
    I love the fact that my horse knows me inside out and can feel how I am feeling without trying, but isn't that what your horse does too?
    Seriously people, my horse (who has been trained with the "games") is exactly the same as your horse. He responds exactly the same way your horses would to the same stimuli, but for some reason he is second rate because of the way he has been trained? Pfft
  17. info on archie

    info on archie Well-known Member

    Harsh, Brew. #(

    I do NH with my 3 horses, (not parelli) and we, or at least, I, enjoy it very much. :)

    Have you ever had a go at it Brew? (not attempting to convert or the likes, just curious)
  18. GoneRama

    GoneRama Gold Member

    Haha where do you reckon your NH instructor learnt their trade?!?! I could almost guarantee they have a P certificate lurking in their skeleton closet that, try as you might, you won't ever get them to admit to it being there.

    Righto my gloves are getting dusted off *#)
  19. info on archie

    info on archie Well-known Member

    Absolutely she learnt the basics of nh from Mr.P! She got up to level 4! Has videos of her practising it last decade and openly tells anyone. :) Took a more advanced route with a few other world wide trainers (who's names escape me-will find out)
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2011
  20. Go the Distance

    Go the Distance Well-known Member

    Why is it that it is called natural horsemanship and not just horsemanship?? My old horseman mate who is 78 was doing lots of this stuff as a teenager when learning the ropes from good old fashioned stockman out on stations.

    I don't like how Mr P wants it all done snappy and quick. It completely irritates me that the horse has to run and bounce onto the float. Horses don't function like that they need time. Stop harrassing and wait for the horse to give it to you willingly not because you have completely hassled the bags out of it and it does what you want in an effort to get you off it's case.

    I have this issue with people trying to get horses through water Mr P style. Mr P just keeps banging away until that horse goes in the water, standing there in his big hat going, 'Oh he will eventually give in!". I take off my boots and socks and walk in front of my horse through the water and guess what 99% of the time they follow. No banging away with ropes, no drama and carry on. You walk in front of him enough times he is going to trust you and when you ask him to go through when you are on his back he will go when he is ready. Why does it have to be this snappy, dominating experience when it can be teamwork with you as a patient, fair leader.

    It becomes a real power play over who can rule the horse and make him do as I wish. I saw a horse once who had been P to death nearly, every time that owner moved the horse swung it's rump away from her and dropped his head to the ground. I found it sickening, this horse had lost all sense of himself and his natural beauty, he had become her brainwashed robot.

    Last night my little Arab had a complete fizzy fit when I went to unbandage her legs. She had let me bandage them fine but when I went to remove them a few hours later she totally lost the plot, pulled back, pigrooted, kicked hysterically etc. The horsewoman in me let her go, I eventually got the bandages off and then I set her loose. I did not make a song and dance about desensitising her there and then. Her baby brain was completely blown, she had done 18km, been on the float twice, ridden with a horse she has never met over country she had never seen and it had rained most of the day. That little girl had, had enough. However with NH there seems to be this thing of, 'Oh there is a problem we must fix it.' Let get the ropes around her legs, lets 'desensitise' her etc etc.

    She will be fine BUT what she needs is time, patience and gentle repitition in an environment that she feels safe, not the quick American fix.

    Part of the beauty of the horse is that he maintains his sense of wildness and freedom to think within reason.

    Just for the record Info on Archie I did buy the $150 starter pack about 8 years ago in an effort to see what all the hype was about and I found it very rigid, condescending and at times useless. I bought it as a last ditch to try and help a horse that I was having mega issues with out in the middle of the Gascoyne and I had already had a few stockman tell me to shoot it. Mr P did not have any secret tricks, the horse still ended up in a hole.
    Last edited: May 3, 2011

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