Latte's thread...

Discussion in 'Problem Horses' started by Shandeh, Nov 1, 2009.

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  1. Shandeh

    Shandeh Well-known Member

    Didn't I say I don't necessarily have to use my crop? Latte isn't as bad as Edward. The trouble is if I'm not carrying a crop I end up using my hand instead because Edward sometimes just doesn't listen.

    It's interesting that Edward has his days when he's lovely and responsive, even forward (jumping days mostly), and his days when he's SuperSlug, the sluggiest slug of all slugdom. Latte on a good day is lovely and forward and responsive regardless of if I have my crop or not and on a bad day is a disaster waiting to happen - not that I've ridden him lately, not since the last bad day.
  2. mzgtr

    mzgtr Well-known Member

    I'm sorry but I totally disagree with keeping latte. You have to stop looking at this in an emotional way because you have to much emotion attached to latte. You have to look at it in a responsible way and really be honest.

    Honestly take away the emotion you feel for latte what else do you have that makes you think that you will be able to handle him. Horses always resort back to what they do when they are in fear. So if your horse has a history of taking of on you then when he gets frighten again or you start getting frustrated again the horse will no dealt take off. If you where scared before you will be scared again it is as simple as that. So then its back to square one. Then what go through all that heart ache again. Is it even worth it??? If your luckey you will not get hurt, if you get scared if a horse gets hard in the mouth then no offence don't own a TB. TB in the racing industry if you ever have ridden track work which I highly doubt is that number one rule DON"T PULL ON THEIR MOUTHS BECAUSE THEY FIGHT MORE AND GO FASTER so with that said it really sounds like your hands and temper are not right for a TB that has bolting issues. It is as simple as that.

    It is okay to give up on a horse and move on not only for your safety but for the horse's well being. You are going to fry this horses head and it will be no good for anyone and it will be put down. Do you want that? I think no then do the right thing and move on.

    A lot of people have had to move on from a horse because they are not right and there is nothing wrong with that does not make you a bad rider it makes you a knowledgeable rider because you are able to make a correct decision about a horse. Even top riders have had to sack horses because they know if the relationship is not right then the horse is not going to take them to the top.

    What happens if the horse seriously hurts you and you end up with serious damage? You may never be able to get on a horse again. Imagine what it is going to do to your mum, your mum will blame herself for thinking that you where able to ride the horse when she knew she had to sack the horse but because she felt at the time that it was best for you to keep him, because you insisted you would change. We both know you two will never be one.

    Sorry for being blunt but people really need to wake up and stopping thinking they are capable of dealing with a problem when they clearly can not
  3. Shandeh

    Shandeh Well-known Member

    MZGTR FYI Latte is NOT a thoroughbred. I suggest you get your facts straight before you comment.

    He has tried to bolt with me with the new bit in his mouth and I was able to bring him back under control gently, unlike with the jointed snaffle he used to be ridden in, which he would just ignore and ignore.

    I am no longer going to bother with this thread because I know it could easily turn nasty.
  4. mzgtr

    mzgtr Well-known Member

    Sorry I thought he was a TB.

    Well everything else I said still relates.

    The horse does not react to the snaffle not because he ignores it. He has a harder mouth so is not sensitive to it anymore. Just say if someone keeps punching you in the same spot everytime so you will not feel it. Same with a horses mouth.

    Its not nasty its commensense. If a horse not working out move on that is not being nasty that is being realistic. You know what people are going to say so why do you keep asking? Are you hoping someone clueless will be on your side?
  5. amber sunday

    amber sunday Well-known Member

    IMO.. i wouldnt keep a horse that i was scared of. can you honestly say that when you take him to a show/pc and he starts to jack up, you are going to be able to keep yourself calm enough to calm him down? a young horse(while they may be quiet) needs a leader to look up to in those situations. not someone that is going to be freaking out as much as them. Once you've got your temper under control you should get an older more experienced horse to teach YOU how to stay calm in those situations, and then you can show a young horse.
    good luck and i do respect what you are doing to make yourself a better rider, but i think it all may come undone if you dont go back to basics.
  6. blitzen

    blitzen Gold Member

    ambersunday, i kept a horse i was scared of. but i have invested a lot of time and money into him to get to the point now where i'm not so scared. i have regular (private) lessons with an awesome instructor & hgave done a lot of research & read into behaviours & different strategies to use to handle him. i asked for A LOT of help.

    i'm not scared of him anymore, but he still pulls stuff out of left field that gets my heart racing. it's just that i have a toolbox of 'tools' at hand that enable me to deal with it. and that's cos i asked for help.
  7. amber sunday

    amber sunday Well-known Member

    but from what i know of, Shandeh is quite young, and a relatively green rider. surely she would be better off having a good time and gaining confidence on a more experienced horse, then constantly fighting a losing battle the way she has been? (i know you're trying to fix the problems shandeh so please dont take this the wrong way just tryign to get my point across)
    From what i know of you blitzen(or what iv seen in pictures anyway lol), you look like a balanced experienced rider. (saw your progress update today and must say i was very impressed and inspired! congrats on how far you ahve come with him, not many people would have stuck it out!) so surely its a different situation?
  8. Lauren

    Lauren Gold Member


    WTH.. honestly i really don't get why your keeping him.
    You clearly are *not* an experienced enough rider for Latte and all that will happen is you'll get hurt and ruin a perfectly good horse!
    Green on green = Black & Blue
    You need to learn to control your temper! You can't take everything out on the horse. Maybe you should go back to having lessons on a schoolmaster at a riding school.

    I'm sorry to be blunt but someone should!
  9. cavalletti

    cavalletti Active Member

    ok. so i did (eventually) move on from a horse that i didn't totally mesh with, after over three years togther. there were numorous other reasons also, i'd outgrown the mare, over time wanted to be able to jump higher and be more competitve and with her age and suspected back or joint issue she was unable to take me there. i worked through a thousand issues with her but at the end of the day we weren't perfect for each other. we weren't that bad but not good. it broke my heart but i did it. like i said earlier.

    anyway, although in theory i agree with what amber sunday and mzgtr and lauren have said, its different every situation. just like what blitzen said. i don't know shandeh's full history, i don't know the situation, but from what i've seen she's had alot of trouble. but she did say that initially, her and latte worked well together. so maybe they can work well again. and she has said that she will try her hardest and start over, not even riding latte etc etc. this is a new approach and if you exclude the possibility of selling her, the best one that shandeh has. i'm not saying that it will/wont be successful, i'm not going there, it might well be a bad choice and i hope that nothing goes wrong, but its her choice. everyone is trying to give advice and thats what makes stockies amazing, but at the end of the day its up to her, and only shandeh and her mum know the true situation 100%. i agree lessons would be a great idea, and controlling your temper first is a must and listen to bon, and yes, BREATHE :)

    bleh, that was a really long reply for a small point eh? :p
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2009
  10. chick_with_a_chainsaw

    chick_with_a_chainsaw Gold Member

    just having an open thought here shandeh and sugars mum.

    maybe as shandeh does have temper issues but a whip is helpful to encourage pony then why not plait a nice soft rope and make a sort of whip whop.

    it wont be pretty BUT will do less damge emotionally and physically for both pony and rider if she looses her temper. i knew a pony that would be the biggest slug id ever met so used to carry a dressage whip but once he knew i wasnt going to do what the beginners and riders that just kicked did he soon became so sensitive to my leg could and would happily go from halt to canter if i asked.

    i do and dont agree on the bit issue. safety reason its a good idea as long as the bit itself wasnt abused. id much rather see a rider in a harsher bit with soft steady hands and firmer when there was an issue than a rider in a snaffle reefing the mouth and yanking and jabbing.
  11. I have never carried a whip whilst riding since the very beginning. Some people will disagree and believe everyone should learn to and carry one properly but that is how I learned.

    I learned to ride all sorts of horses from hot OTTB's to complete and utter leg-dead slugs. The point being I had many many lessons and learned how to use my seat to ask the horse for forward movement, not my legs. Over-using legs is how they become dead to it in the first place. And if they're dead to the leg how are you going to ask for leg yeilding, them to bend around the leg properly and later in life more advanced movements that require leg aids?

    Regardless of what you ride you really really really really need regular lessons with a reputable and knowledgable coach. There is no substitute for these and not only will lessons educate you on correct riding skills, it will also help a huge amount with your own confidence and dare I say it your frustration. Without lessons you're just going to keep getting confused and frustrated and confusing and frustrating your horse.

    I also strongly disagree with the change of bit, because it isn't the horse's fault he is pulling and he is 'ignoring' your rein aids, it is the rider's fault. Remouthing won't do anything if the rider cannot learn to ride from the seat and Standardbreds that have raced are taught to lean into the bit and pull like freight trains so just exerting pressure on the horse's mouth will not do anything except remind him of his early training.
  12. Eventer4Ever

    Eventer4Ever Well-known Member

    Ok guys.
    Now I'm not sure whether I'm for or against you keeping Latte, Shandeh.
    He's a lovely boy and so so kind, I'd hate for it all to work out horribly. But on the other hand, I know that the thought of giving up a horse that you love so much and know that you can get through things with.
    Personally I think as everyone else has said that you shouldn't change his bit. When you first put it on him I do remember telling you that like with Halligan, it'll work for a while but he'll soon learn to evade it just like he does the snaffle.

    SO... If you really really really want all this to work out, I think you need to....
    A) get regular lessons. Seriously, it's my livesaver.
    B) during those lessons, keep your mouth shut and just LISTEN to what the instructor has to say. I know.. I'm a teenager as well and some days I just cannot keep my mouth shut but from personal experience, it doesn't help. The instructor KNOWS what they are doing.. That's why they are an instructor.
    C) stick with the snaffle with you on his back and your mum lunging you. Learn to use your seat and leg (no crop, no spurs) aids to ask for forward and slow. Practise lots of the no stirrups, windmills, touch his bum/ears, round the worlds etc to get a balanced seat so that you CAN use your seat and legs.

    Trust me, when I got mocha.. I couldn't even get him to trot. We soon found out I was 'riding with my handbrake on' coz I was so used to having a forward horse under me (Halligan) and always needing them to slow down. So maybe you just need to loosen up and relax and get those bum and leg muscles working.
  13. nannygoat

    nannygoat Gold Member

    This advice has been given many many times with many excuses - the main one being lack of money (which is fair enough)...however I feel the purchase of a 'new' pony would have been better postponed and the money used until the riders horsemanship capabilities were given the opportunity to improve.
  14. tilda

    tilda Well-known Member

    couldnt have said it better nannygoat, as i stated earlier every thread shandeh posts the same advice is always given yet no advice looks like its being taken on #(
  15. blitzen

    blitzen Gold Member

    i know and it sucks. #(#(#(

    i could say this about a few people actually.
  16. Sugar's Mum

    Sugar's Mum Gold Member

    Nannygoat, tilda and Blitzen it is so incredibly easy to criticise someone elses decisions. After all it is easy to be God and know all when you are on the other side of the internet from a person.

    Everyone has the right to their opinions, and I will never call you an idiot for having different ideas to me. You have the right to different opinions after all you have had different experiences.

    I have taken on board the information/opinions expressed and have made a decision based on my 25+ years knowledge of horses, my 7 years vet nursing, my 15+ years knowledge of my daughter, my 2+ years giving riding lessons to children of various ages, my 7 years of research into Autism/asperger's, my 2 years as a teacher's assistant to special needs children.

    You choose to not agree with my decisions that is totally fine. When you are in the same position as me maybe you would have the same depth of knowledge on which to base your decisions but no one ever has the right to ridicule a person for the decisions they have made.

    If you feel your comments have not been listened to because I have not choosen to act in the way you see fit (Knowing little of my life, knowledge, experience) then I am sorry to have made you feel ignored. Your comments and suggestions have as much worth as my end actions.

    However you do not have the right to dictate to me my actions, nor to ridicule them when they dont follow your own path. If you dont have something positive to say then keep your niggly thought for private messages neither I nor my daughter need the nasty taste it leaves in our mouths.

    Mods can you please close this thread. I feel it is no longer producing any postive ideas or suggestions and only turning into another lets get stuck into someone who doesn't follow our every suggestion thread.
  17. keridwyn

    keridwyn Well-known Member

    nicely said.
    I hope you guys can sort out your problems with latte. (((good vibes))))
    Let me know if you guys ever want a hack through the bush, and i'm so there!! :D
    Good luck! :)*
  18. Sugar's Mum

    Sugar's Mum Gold Member

    Thanks Keridwyn for your support. I like the sound of a bush ride :) Shall ahve to tee one up :)
  19. cavalletti

    cavalletti Active Member

    I think thats sort of what i was trying to say. advice is enormously helpful and stockies is amazing, but noone else truely knows the situation, and the end decision is up to the owner. again, good luck and i really hope it works out this time.
  20. Sugar's Mum

    Sugar's Mum Gold Member

    Thanks Cavaletti :) Much appreciate the support
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