Latest HENDRA death

Discussion in 'Horse Management' started by Sharaway, Jun 29, 2011.

  1. TBPA

    TBPA Well-known Member

    There have been dogs tested previously that were exposed to the virus they tested negative. Certainly the bats going from 30% to 70% infection rate has a lot to do with the outbreaks. I guess everyone should make sure they take hygine precuations when dealing with any animal. If you don't get exposed to mucous or blood you are unlikely to get it. WA people are lucky to be protected by low populations of bats and the Nullabor Plain. It still scares me though!
     
  2. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    The fact is that authorities don't know HOW this disease is transmitted.....or what animals can get it and share it. The poor horse got the blame for transmitting it to humans, now dogs are getting blamed - anyone thought to blame the dirty bloody bats???!!!!!!!!!

    I'm no bat expert (unlike Dr Taylor et al) but HENDRA is sounding more and more like Rabies to me and less like some "exclusive bat disease".

    I think authorities need to either rush through the vaccine testing protocols or start culling bats.....there is no other alternative. Why keep making these absurd statements about "low risk ect" when they really have very little idea about anything......the biggest RISK I see is being at the mercy of policy makers and hand-sitters.... who seem to care more about placating green lobby groups than doing anything to actually protect livestock and humans!

    Maybe when green tree frogs test positive to HENDRA someone might think to get the guns out.#(
     
  3. Hen

    Hen Well-known Member

    Bats are the rats of the sky! Off with their heads! Got to try and contain this thing before it's too late (or perhaps it already is).
     
  4. dirtbug

    dirtbug Gold Member

    omg ferrets???

    as a ferret owner i am interested in this as much as i am in the horse side, can i have a link to where i can get information on this...

    even tho i dont live in qld (because i cant have my ferrets there) i am interested in how a ferret can be infected with hendra???
     
  5. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    I think (?) that those other critters - cats, pigs and ferrets have been infected in a lab as part of the research phase.......I think the infection of the kelpie in Qld has been the first "outside" infection noted.

    Funny about the dog......*no unkindness intended* is that I often shout at my dogs for eating horse poop. They kind of just pick up a bit before they roll in the damn stuff..........wonder if the kelpie got it the same way.....?
    Interesting............because ingestion seems to make a bit of sense. Or drank out of the same dam, trough or bucket?

    I imagine that DPI QLD would be pooping bricks about now. Can't wait to read the reports from other "bat experts"..... that all dog owners are irresponsible for transmissions - or maybe its only the farm/working, cross-bred, or family owned variety that is the public danger......those pedigreed breeds couldn't possibly fall into that category?
     
  6. dirtbug

    dirtbug Gold Member

    thanks EVP,
    it has me interested also for the fact if a ferret is found i am 'told' they are pts, so chances would be minimal (only if there was a ferret in hiding LOL) of a ferret contracting hendra.

    thats a good point on the kelpie maybe eating the horse poop and contracting it that way...
     
  7. Ponies4Me

    Ponies4Me Well-known Member

     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2011
  8. dirtbug

    dirtbug Gold Member

    they are completely banned ponies4me

    current law ...

    The Queensland Department of 'Natural Resources, Mines & Energy' (NRME)

    Under the QLD Land Protection (Pest and Stock Route Management) Act 2002 it is illegal for ferrets to be kept in Queensland as pets.

    Prior to 1985 ferrets were not prohibited in Qld.
    In 1985 ferrets became a declared animal under the Rural Lands Protection Act.
    1st July 2003 the Rural Lands Protection Act was replaced with the Land Protection (Pest and Stock Route Management) Act 2002 and Regulations 2003 and lists ferrets as a prohibited/declared Class 1 pest.

    Class 1 Pest under the Act are animals which represent a threat to primary industries, natural resources and the environment. Under the Act it is an offence to introduce a ferret into Qld, feed a ferret, release a ferret or keep a ferret, unless issued with a permit to do so, permits are only issued to bona fide zoos & wildlife parks.
    (Qld Government NRM facts pest series Declared animals of Queensland. 2003)

    * See comments the QFWS received from the Farmers Federations of other Australian States regarding the threat to primary industries! on our 'wild ferrets?' webpage


    Under the Land Protection (Pest and Stock Route Management) Act 2002 and Regulations 2003 the fine for keeping a ferret - a maximum of $60,000.00 - 800 penalty units.

    real ferret facts ...

    * There are no documented cases of any domesticated ferret (Mustela putorius furo) surviving in the wild anywhere in Australia. Ever.

    * Ferrets (Mustela putorius furo) are a domesticated version of the European Polecat (Mustela putorius) in much the same way Poodles (Canis lupus familiaris) are a domesticated version of the Wolf (Canis lupus).

    * Rabies is not present in Australia

    * Australia has been declared free of Bovine TB since 1992. It can also be transmitted by many other animals, including Australian natives. *1

    * Domesticated Ferrets (Mustela putorius furo) are the 3rd most popular companion pet in the U.S.A

    * Ferrets are very different from wild European Polecats. They have been domesticated for thousands of years, and have lost the ability to survive without help from humans. They are also social animals, compared to Polecats which are solitary by nature. Most pet ferrets are fed a diet very different to that of a wild Polecat, and due to olfactory imprinting, they would not recognise a live animal as food.

    * Ferrets cannot sweat, and hence suffer from heatstroke in high temperatures.

    * Domesticated Ferrets (Mustela putorius furo) are the only member of the mustelid family permitted in Australia. They can be kept as household pets in all states and territories except Queensland and the Northern Territory.

    taken from here - Queensland Ferret Welfare Society as im in WA and had to google LOL

    now that i have hijacked a important horse thread i shall go back into the backgound *#):p
     
  9. Ponies4Me

    Ponies4Me Well-known Member

    Well ya learn something new every day, thanks Dirtbug :)

    Don't know if you guys would have had it on the news or not, but David Lovell (head vet at Redlands Vet clinic) said publicly last night that he believed bat to dog infection was (in his opinion) very likely. Bit different from the 'official' line of bat-horse-dog.

    Really feel for the family at Mt Alford, they just looked shellshocked from it all.
     
  10. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Anyone notice the DPI spokeman said "This dog is a real threat to humans if it bites someone"??????????????????????????????????????

    So are they saying that all the humans who have died from HENDRA got the dissease because the horses BIT them?????????????????????

    Now I am very dumb......and as I said am no "bat expert"....BUT......when EI came to our shores it was established that the strain of EI had mutated and was different from any other known strain of EI (hence the rush for the new vaccine?).

    FAST FOREWARD

    HENDRA is here........they don't understand why horses get the disease and then have the ability to transfer to humans. No other animal outside a lab has ever contracted the disease. So obviously the disease is MUTATING and HAS DONE BEFORE.

    Being the sometime conspiracy theoriest that I am - HENDRA is sounding more and more like a mutated version of RABIES. Of course I don't think they'll want to label it that - way too upsetting for animal owners - but in my head I am calling it AUSSIE RABIES.......and I bet 10 bucks lots of other people are calling it that too!!!
     
  11. feather feet

    feather feet Well-known Member

    i totally agree EVP..so sick of being forced fed absolute tripe about this situation..if they dont know the answer..then just say..WE DONT KNOW WTF IS HAPPENING...dont stand there and lie and say dogs can NEVER get it...and it took a dog to get 6 mil over 3 yrs injected into research..pffft go figure..i think they alot more about this virus than their saying..treating all us like mushrooms is the answer to everything..and as much as a understand how horrible and upsetting it must be this family of the dog..i would gladly hand it over..cleary no one knows enough to say you cant catch it from the dog years down the track?? no animal is worth more than your family's life..(apart from a bat the greenies say)
     
  12. Raw Prawn

    Raw Prawn Well-known Member


    Ok mate..... a few facts


    1. We have Lyssavirus in Australia - this virus is almost identical to Rabies - it just has a different name. It is carried by bats and can be transferred in the same way as rabies in other countries. Google it...

    2. Killing the bats is going to achieve nothing. Just like killing cane toads and ferals cats is doing nothing.

    3. The whole situation is a lot more complicated than people think. The scientists (most of them vets) are SO close to finding a vaccine. That is our best option for controlling this virus......not killing the bats

    4. Hendra virus IS present in WA bats and believe me there are plenty of them up here. It is thought that Hendra virus outbreaks are not seen (yet) in WA because of the low horse numbers in the NW of WA.
     
  13. Pipsqueak

    Pipsqueak Active Member

    I enjoy your thoughtful posts EVP, but have to disagree on an idea to cull the bats (no im not an over the top greeenie *#) ) Just my opinion.
    I worked over east on NSW north coast in mixed animal practice in the last couple of years so Hendra was certainly always at the back of mind and a very real possibility for me to be exposed with. I remember being on call one weekend and treating a horse with vague signs, sort of colicy, moderately elevated temp, and seemed a little bit 'spaced out' in mentation which i attributed to pain. It wasn't till the next day when I thought oh god Hendra-it hits you like a ton of bricks- not my own possible exposure but more that I could have potentially exposed the owners. In this case horse was 100% by next day.

    Back to the bats- it is hard to explain to people who haven't seen it just how many bats there are in northern NSW, when they flew out at dusk there were literally thousands, for at least 10minutes the sky would be full of them. I tried to get photos but it just didn't work. We had fruit trees in our paddock so lots of bats. i was in a high bat, high horse population area and so far no Hendra.
    I am not an expert on bats but based on my basic knowledge, culling colonies would mean further movement of colonies and potential spread of highly infected colonies. There is no way you could cull enough bats to have effect. In fact one of the schools of thought to why we have had so many cases of Hendra this is year is due to lack of resources for bats in qld and northern nsw (due to flood, cyclones etc) meaning colonies are travelling further and moving out of there normal territories.
    As for testing colonies- chances are you will get antibody positives in many colonies.In terms of handling bats only rabies vaccinated people can do it (due to lyssavirus) so a risky business in itself. And from a human point of view I just can't agree with wiping out a species to protect our own interests.

    In the latest vet journal Hendra vaccine for horses should be field trialled next year and available 2013. You can still determine whether the horses antibodies are from vaccination or actual infection. Is this soon enough- probably not? But then again don't know if I would want to be vaccinating my horse with it if it isn't fully trialled.

    I agree with you that there needs to be more money put into research, hopefully this latest outbreak will be enough to get things really moving. Chances are we need a vaccine for more than one species and we really need to understand this virus. I don't understand why there isn't a team totally dedicated to working with Hendra- I would prefer my taxes go to that than many of the other things we are forced to contribute to.

    I feel for the family of the kelpie testing positive but I'm sorry I think he needs to go-we just don't know enough about the virus, what if he does start shedding it in the future?
     
  14. Raw Prawn

    Raw Prawn Well-known Member

    @) Hi Pipsqueak from one vet to another :D
     
  15. Pipsqueak

    Pipsqueak Active Member

    Hi RP

    I see your as busy as I am hehe *#)
    Ah well makes a nice change!
     
  16. Raw Prawn

    Raw Prawn Well-known Member

    Haha! Plenty of time to enjoy ponies and my morning cup of tea **)
     
  17. Ponies4Me

    Ponies4Me Well-known Member

    ...and another positive in NSW, with 4 other horses 'at risk'.

    Agree with Pipsqueaks comments entirely **)

    You really have to spend an evening watching the bats fly out to feed to 'get' just how many there are in a colony. You'd never be able to cull the lot ';'

    Re testing of bats. They put down sheets and then come back to collect the droppings for testing.
     
  18. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    And what will happen when the virus mutates - again?
    Moving from bat to dog or horse to dog has obviously shown just how much those scientists DON'T know about HENDRA......they said it couldn't happen didn't they? Wonder if the batch they are working on now will need tipping down the gurgler now that the disease has obviously jumped species (outside a lab).

    In parts of the USA possums were blamed for spreading a very nasty disease (think it was biggest in Kentucky)........the only way they worked out how to help eradicate the disease was to encourage the removal of possums. People who had them had the right to kill them....A vaccine alone will not prevent animals or humans contracting HENRDA....as the virus mutates the effectiveness of vaccine is lessened????????

    While-ever bats are incubating HENDRA it will continue to pass on.....this is because they are the host species. Why not trap the buggers, test them and only release healthy bats back into the wild......or is this too hard?

    Cane toads and other plague proportion crawlies ONLY became the pest they are because authorities acted too late. If they had culled years ago they might have had a chance at containing them - at least in the northern states anyway. Same with things like fireweed ect............put it in the too hard basket long enough and the basket needs a forklift to move it!

    If HENDRA was causing the same problems in the USA there would be greater moves to cull as well as releasing a vaccine........

    Look at the moves to control cattle tick in this country. Look at the tick depots and regulations.......same with fruit fly. But I guess ticks and fruit fly don't have the cuddle factor like bats do?

    I'm sorry but I don't think anything comes before human health.....not a bat, not a horse and not a dog. The only benefit of EI was that humans don't die from it, and horses have a good chance of recovering from the illness.....I don't think HENDRA is such a nice germ.....it kills. We've identified where it comes from - how about doing society a favour and stopping it at the source AND giving us medicine as a safety net!!

    Boy am I glad that Great White Sharks don't fly!!
     
  19. EVP

    EVP Gold Member

    Funny you say this.........its reported that all infected animals are destroyed....doesn't sound like good research practise to me. Especially the Kelpie dog - one would assume that his No.1 status would be a prime reason to study him and marvel at how he stays so well?........Nope - he's going to be killed. Why are authorities so worried about this bloody dog biting someone when millions of diseased bats are still flying about?

    Bat colonies could be netted....and netted by the millions. Seeing as they only fly at given times I can't see how they can say its too hard to net them.....Ever seen how they net native birds like cockies ect?
    You can trap anything with the right equipment and approach.
    Why not look to poisoning them via a transferal method - works with other critters. The loss of sick bats means jack-bat to me......I consider them inferior within their species. As much as this might offend some people - I wish HENDRA was actually lethal to the bats themselves!
     
  20. feather feet

    feather feet Well-known Member

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