Kenoath's abscess has burst......

Discussion in 'Horse Management' started by GoneRama, Jul 3, 2011.

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  1. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    No actually, not me, it is a person called a vet who hopefully has an x-ray machine. Even if the vet has no idea about horses, they have the ability to consult with those that do...a benefit of the internet.

    Oh yes, the red dirt at the toe.....yes the red dirt at the toe, just like the stuff packed in the exposed corium in the abscess hole....nothing like a bit of dirt in a compromised hoof structure **) Wait till the "new" sole sloths off and then you can have lots of corium to look at **)
     
  2. KINGSBONES

    KINGSBONES Active Member

    Retro, I am curious just because I have no idea and can't remember reading it anywhere. You sound knowledgable enough, what is your qualifications to do with the hoof? Are you a master farrier?

    Gone Rama, your doing the best you can, NO-ONE can imagine what its like up there unless you are living it. You have done all you can so pat yourself on the back. Yeah he needs a trim but whoopty doo, thats not as bad as some I have seen. Don't strees wait for the vet and see how it goes from there. Please keep us updated as its interesting and a good learning curve!

    P.S I am SPEWING we didnt get any pus photos!!lol
     
  3. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    See more pats on the back....better quickly like that post GR!!!

    Kingsbone, google hoof abscess on the internet....read what it says about lameness continuing after a hoof abscess has released.....the only qualification you need is the ability to read.

    I can confirm I have learnt to read......
     
  4. GoneRama

    GoneRama Gold Member

    Thanks Kingsbones.

    I will most certainly keep people updated because the ones that are genuinely interested far out weigh the few that cause a bit of a comotion. :))

    I am truly humbled by peoples remarks on here.

    I am also humbled in a way by Retro's comments as well believe it or not. Here is a person who is passionate about horses and their well being and apparently very concerned for the welfare of a chestnut thoroughbred in Arnhem Land who she has never met. I do appreciate you (Retro) taking your time to construct your opinions and share them with others. Yes, you have frustrated the living daylights out of me but you have also alerted me to things that I was not aware of and thus I have learnt a great many things from you (and google!) You have also helped me to remember to stay calm and think about things before responding when someone really p!$$es me off, a social skill which can only help me every day of the week.

    Cheers :))
     
  5. Seahorse

    Seahorse Well-known Member

    Very true, but sometimes the best we can do is not the same as what actually needs to be done.

    Yes, his feet look really concerning, but I'm not a hoof expert, so I won't say more than that. But I don't get why people are so upset about someone clearly stating that they think a major change of tack is needed. We all want the best for this horse, and his owner, but it's no good saying awwww, you're doing so well, and anyone who criticizes you is just a big meeeeanie, if in your opinion (remember, it's a discussion forum!) all is not well at all.

    Perhaps this horse just isn't cut out for this life: GR has raised that possibility herself. And if that's the case, then no amount of feel-goodery is going to help. I've known other horses who lived in the NT for a while, and for various reasons (colic/puffs etc), they just couldn't cope. That's the trouble with horses, they don't always fit into our plans for them.

    Good luck with him GR. I hope he comes through.
     
  6. GoneRama

    GoneRama Gold Member

    Seahorse you are dead right. I know this horse is perhaps not suited to this lifestyle, fully aware of that one but in order to move him on I have to get him sound first. When this abscess first popped up we were on the phone to vets and what they suggested we do is what we were already doing. He is on the improve no one can question that because no one on here (other than me) has been going out to that paddock nearly (I say nearly because I was away for 3 weeks or 20 days, whatever way you want to look at it) every day for the last 74 days to check on him.

    I'm not upset by what Retro has to say it is the method of deliverance which could use a bit of tweaking to keep it within civil limits.

    I am open to criticism.

    If you've got a big pimple on your face what approach would you prefer.........

    Someone coming up and going 'OMG, you don't look after yourself, you should do this this and this'.

    or

    Someone coming and saying 'Oooh, that pimple doesn't look too good. Have you tried this on it?'

    Both deliver the same message...one tactfully and the other not so tactfully.

    ETA: For the record, sometimes what people need is a bit of a pat on the back when times are tough to give them the courage that it's not all that bad and that they can pick themselves up and keep going. If you're constantly getting berated at work and only getting told what you're doing wrong pretty soon you're going to feel like crap and not bother putting any effort in because you just don't feel there is any point...
    until..........someone says to you 'Hey, that thing you did the other day wasn't perfect but was a great attempt'. That will simply pick you up just enough to cause you to think that your job ain't too bad.

    Nah stuff it, where's the point in complimenting people.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
  7. Pseudoname

    Pseudoname New Member

    goodness me, if someone came to me and told me what to do to make my gallopers run faster i would be thrilled.
    you are geting some brill advise on this thread. if you took a deap breathe and read the words instead of geting ofended you could realy help your horse out.
    make use of the means you have, dont use it as an exuse. the day my farrier starts triming my horses purely for cosmetic purposes is the day i start doing them myself.
    there is nothing cosmetic about cleaning up kenoths feet and relieving some of the presure.
    buying a $12thou float doesnt make you a beter horse owner, and doesnt fix your horses isues. because of buying this float you now cant aford to take him to the vets as soon as he should be there. couldve spent half the amount on a modest float, and closser to home, come back taken him to the vets and still been ahead in the $$.
    im not pretending to understand the remoteness of wher you live. but i did do a couple of country stints on stations and the horses feet never looked like that. some of them would go months upon months without triming, but their feet were fabulous and cared for themselves.

    you want this to be educational, well people are puting excelent facts out there. there are some prety green horse owners on this site, and this shows them that leaving a serious health condition is ok if you dont have the money to get it sorted imedaitely.
     
  8. GoneRama

    GoneRama Gold Member

    I'm not denying that fact Pseudoname, no way at all. Of course you would be thrilled if someone came to you and told you how to make your gallopers run faster! I JUST DON"T APPRECIATE HAVING INSULTS FLUNG AT ME WITH THAT INFORMATION!!!

    Spending 13k on a float does not make me a better horse owner, hell no.

    I am making use of what I have on offer which is why I'm using the wonderful exfarrier I have on hand.

    I AM NOT MAKING EXCUSES ABOUT ANYTHING!!!

    yes, lots of station horses go without getting their feet trimmed, it also depends on the sort of country they're running on as to what their feet look like. Horses running on black soil country will have vastly different looking feet to those running on rocky country.......these horses are running on both.

    I am not saying that there aren't people contributing great facts and did I not just thank Retro for taking the time to put her concerns forth? I acknowledged what Retro had to say!!!
     
  9. Cav

    Cav Gold Member

    I found this interesting....

    Abscesses, A Misunderstood Phenomena

    Close-up of an abscess exit hole on the sole.

    From The Perspective of a Horseowner
    by Rachael Ward

    Abscesses * If you've been around horses long enough, you've probably experienced the anguish of finding out your horse has an abscess. You've probably been met with much conflicting advice and information, too. Simply put, an abscess is the way a hoof rids itself of dead cells and damaged tissue caused by trauma to the internal structures of the hoof. Much like a boil or pimple, pus forms and festers and sooner or later, out it comes. It can burst through the coronet, the sole, the bulbs, the frog or wherever it finds the easiest path.

    Here's where the conflict comes in though. Conventional sources tend to believe that abscesses form when foreign material gains entry to the hoof capsule via a widened white line or penetration of the sole by a sharp object. And sometimes this is the case. In my personal experience, this has occurred when a horse gets a thorn, nail or other sharp object stuck in his sole. But this has been a pretty rare occurrence. Far more commonly, abscesses are the result of damage to the corium WITHOUT penetration of a foreign object. This damage could be caused by solar bruises, laminitis, lack of circulation as a result of incorrect hoof form or shoeing * all sorts of things can result in what Dr. Strasser refers to as a "purulent inflammation of the corium".

    Here's an example: Your horse has been shod for 5 years and has contracted heels but is otherwise pretty sound. Somehow you hear of the barefoot movement and decide to pull your horse's shoes and go barefoot right away for optimum horse health. You trim your horse's feet with the assistance of a Hoofcare Specialist and afterwards he has fabulous hoof mechanism. Very proud of yourself indeed, you pat yourself on the back for doing such a great job. But, a week or two later your previously sound horse greets you at his gate with a very ouchy right front and an obvious reluctance to walk. Upon further investigation, you notice his hoof is very warm to the touch and he has a slight digital pulse. Now what do you do? Put the shoes back on? Stick him in a stall? Panic? Dig a very large hole in his sole with a hoof knife? Pour chemicals on his hoof and give him lots of bute? Nope, none of the above.

    What you should do is the exact opposite. Understand that during the 5 years your horse was shod, damage has occurred inside the hoof and until now the hoof did not have enough circulation to expel it. Your horse needs continued freedom of movement, frequent correct trimming and daily exposure of the hooves to water just as he always has. And to help him out with getting rid of the yucky stuff and keep things clean, soak his hoof for 30 minutes a day in a solution of apple cider vinegar and water. (About 3 tbs. to a hoof boot of water) Within a few days he should be feeling better and you'll probably find an exit hole either in the sole or the coronet, don't be too impatient though * a really big abscess might take as long as a week to burst (sometimes even longer).

    The timetable for complete healing of an abscess varies, if you are concerned that the abscess is not healing as it should or think that you may have misdiagnosed the problem * be sure to contact your Hoofcare Specialist for further assistance. Horses who have had laminitis, severe contraction, navicular syndrome or other serious hoof problems may suffer from frequent abscesses for up to two years.
     
  10. GoneRama

    GoneRama Gold Member

     
  11. Cav

    Cav Gold Member

    This is written by another vet....

    It provides the horse with some relief from pain if the abscess is found and opened by an expert. A small round hole cut in the right place allows the pressurized fluid to drain. The abscess is then cleaned with a mild disinfectant, and the hole closed with clean loam, clay, or healing earth. Bandaging is not necessary-quite the opposite, it can be damaging because it restricts circulation. The horse should be let out onto a soft and level pasture or paddock. Movement on soft ground is helpful as it increases blood flow into the hoof, allowing for quicker healing. After 24 hours the hoof should be bathed, the cleaning repeated (with chamomile tea, for example), and the hole again closed with clay. Then the hoof should be left alone for two days. Arter three days, the corium will be covered with a whitish-yellow skin, the newly-formed sole horn. After one week the sheet of horn will already be thick enough for the horse to walk smoothly on even ground. For sharp stones, however, the sole requires two further weeks of growth.
     
  12. Pseudoname

    Pseudoname New Member

    I AM NOT MAKING EXCUSES ABOUT ANYTHING!!!


    whoa nellie... your geting very defensive, and slightly ilogical, this must be very stresful for you. its never nice having an ill horse, but you can help him with a couple of simple things.
    trim your horses hooves and get him on some pain relief asap.
    you could also email the photos to a realy good vet (think racehorse vet here) and get their opinion. most vets understand the remoteness factor. heck you could even pay them a consult fee and get some drugs posted to you!

    edit, re your last post. it shows that because you have given the reason of not having the money to get your horse to the vet. plus the numerous replies to this post with the words of encouragement and defense.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
  13. PF

    PF Active Member

    I find it interesting that whenever anyone asks RR for qualifications/experience the question gets very neatly side stepped....I think we have an armchair expert here.
     
  14. GoneRama

    GoneRama Gold Member

    Oh I have drugs there, I have rung vets and they've said to me there's nothing more I can do than what I'm doing. He was on bute at the start. He has been on antibiotics.

    Yes I am getting defensive of course I am.

    Pain relief?! Are people missing the fact that the pain is subsiding daily and that this horse is on the improve? Having the pain there probably makes him a little bit more cautious in the paddock so he doesn't go hooning around like an idiot and do more damage. Pain, while yes, not good is there to protect the body, to tell the critter that hey, it's time to back off a bit so the body can heal.
     
  15. GoneRama

    GoneRama Gold Member

    I hope you've ducked!!!
     
  16. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    No you are very wrong PF, I am always honest about my PhD (google scholar) :p

    You see, this is what you need to learn about being a good debater..trying to discredit someone by targetting their qualifications is just a poor move because it is not the individuals qualification or even experience that count in a discussion thread but the strength of connection of the claim, warrants, backings and qualifiers of what is discussed. So in a nutshell you have to actually target the argument itself, not the person...because it is the argument that matters ;)

    And truly that is fair....this is a internet discussion forum on the world wide web, the only thing we can really identify ourselves with is our opinions and arguments.

    Oh and Cav...congratulations on finding the Strasser artical...even hardcore barefooters take a bit of a step away from her these days....but I do see that earthen clay (which has most likely the purified variety) is used to seal the abscess hole and replaced after cleaning daily.
     
  17. GoneRama

    GoneRama Gold Member

    Good post Retro :))
     
  18. PF

    PF Active Member

    Ah RR but I am not wrong then - you are an armchair expert and as I have no experience (nor claim to have) in debating I don't know the rules. I also thought we were on an internet chat forum - not a formal debate team. :)*
     
  19. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    Bad move again PF, don't make assumptions :) Focus on my argument. Here is a tip, the main focus of my argument is that a horse that has continuing lameness after a hoof abscess rupture is a potiental sign of complications of a hoof abscess and requires further investigation. Therefore a start for you might be to try and disprove this claim....so go ahead...

    Alternatively my other claim is that a horse that has been lame for 74 days has been in pain for 74 days....therefore feel free to have a go at that one...

    Only when you have done this successfully will you have a chance of discrediting me in this discussion....other wise you are just discrediting yourself :))

    This is not formal debating stuff....this is a normal interchange of ideas, a discussion.
     
  20. GoneRama

    GoneRama Gold Member

    Retro I actually like that post. Well written.
     
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