Keeping Colts/Stallions together

Discussion in 'Breeding Horses' started by Sharaway, Mar 4, 2008.

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  1. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    No worries Samm....but I do think if you think it is a good idea to give a description of your property set up. I think if you are on a small property surrounded by other properties with a heap of horses it may set up more risk for something going wrong.
     
  2. samm

    samm Gold Member

    Yep and thats a consideration RR.One of the reason I didnt run Prince with another male AFTER I moved onto a smaller property was because mares were within smelling and seeing distance and he'd started covering by then.He was right next door to another colt and could touch etc but not actually in with him.
    I find it interesting to read of what others do though so I hope this thread will continue :)
     
  3. Remaani

    Remaani Guest

    Yes, i agree Samm, lets keep it on track.

    RR, what we've all said is OUR own personal experience with entire horses & how we all do things.
    I dont run stallions together but i would like to think i could with my mini stallion & colt in the future, during the off season..... depending on several factors.

    Lets not ruin the thread huh? ;)
     
  4. Reigate

    Reigate Well-known Member

    We ran the little herd that we did together because it suited THEM at the time.....

    I really dont appreciate basically being told that Im perhaps stupid or dont have a clue for doing what we did........

    The mini ruled the roost in that paddock at the time.... then the gelding, then the TB and then the three colts....

    It worked for US at the time, and running them all together was not something we just did for the hell of it........
     
  5. Marianne

    Marianne Gold Member

    When I was looking for my Waler I took a trip out to Korda. There is a fellow there that has a fantastic Waler Stallion from Victoria. He thows the "heavy" Waler. His horses are sensational. Anyway I'm getting to the point...

    He took us to a paddock to see the colts he had available... Well turns out they were all over 3 and most over 4. They had an alpha just like any other herd and all the colts/stallions were gentleman. We were in the paddock with them and you'd never have known they were entire. Esp considering they were only handled to worm/have feet done. I think if they've been socialised with other stallions, geldings they would probably make better horse citizens when out and about.

    This is the one I fell for he was from a TB mare but looks more like his dad. I had already fallen in love with the mare I ended up with so I didn't get him in the end. What a big noggin.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Mod 1

    Mod 1 Moderator

    Mods are watching....I would appreciate for members who don't own a stallion/s to keep it minimal, and don't bag out to members who has one.

    There are few members who do own stallions and they do know how to manage or what they do with their stallion/s is their business, no one else!

    If they run together ok with no dramas then fantastic...I am all for it as it's a better environment for them rather than having it locked up or living on his own!

    I would as much love to keep this thread open as it's good to have a healthy debates, please keep it on track thank you:)

    Mod 1:}
     
  7. JSP

    JSP Well-known Member

    I really enjoyed reading your post bindi - you certainly have a way with words!

    Our two colts are paddocked by themselves, but surrounded on 2 or 3 sides by other horses. They were with other horses as youngsters but we choose to keep them on their own for various reasons - one had a ram for company does that count LOL
     
  8. Sassy

    Sassy Gold Member

    The following post is the opinion and experience of "Sassy" and would like to remind horse owners that all horses are individual and what one can do others cant.... (disclaimer enough?) *#)

    I would have run my colt with another if i'd had another to run him with.
    IME most colts are fine to run with other colts, some are more territorial than others, some will be fine up until they start serving and some will never be tolerant of other testosterone in their domain.
    If I can then I would, and IMO if you can then I think it is to the benefit of the colt/s, and again IMO i believe ultimately they become better working stallions in that they are more easily run with mares in a herd invironment.
     
  9. croft

    croft Well-known Member

    I Have a mature stallion that runs with a 2yr old colt and 4 mares and there are no fights or hassle's , they are all happy even at dinner time and the stallion is never pushy or dominant to horse or human.:)
     
  10. deschuur

    deschuur Gold Member

    I would love to have run Frits with company but it is not a possibility, $$$ being a deciding factor.

    I don't see a problem in the right conditions - as Samm said, some do some don't. I have seen stallions running together, mind you mares were not around and during the season they are separated.

    Correct me if I am wrong (*just a miniute I am doning the suit of armour:p *)

    In the wild (and I am judging this on Zebra behaviour as they are the most truly wild equines (as close as) that I have personally observed) the herd consists mainly of mares, fillies and some colts under two and one stallion whose job it is to serve mares and protect the herd - everything else in the herd is run by the dominant mare. At about two the colts are inched out by the stallion but also by the mares, and it is not done overly agressively either, these colts then establish bachelor herds. These herds are then run on the outer reaches of the herd, probably about 500m-1km between them. The colts mature and will challenge the stallion until one day the balance of power has shifted.

    Anyway that is just some useless information for you and probably not very helpful:eek::p

    To me it would make sense to run a stallion with mares to truly learn manners as they will sort the stallion out in no uncertain terms. Of course that has other consequences as well, but a lot of pregnant mares are run with the stallions.

    At the end of the day, if there are no mares about to cause conflict I think the colts and stallions would live quite happily together in a bachelor herd.
     
  11. primrosecourt

    primrosecourt Well-known Member

    Dito..........I have to agree with some of what Bindi is saying in the fact the me personnally couldnt ever afford to replace my stallion and so I have to reduce any risk of him being injured.He also competes and this for us as performance stud meas that people will want to see him out and about.Again it brings back the risk factor of injury running with any other horses.He is happy and healthy and perfomes very well so I dont have a problem with him on his own.He has mates near by and that works for us.

    If young colts are kept together for a while then I think thats great for them but I do think when they are the brought in to work its play time over and they need to focus in the job in hand.I'm thinking a small mini is not going to be as difficlut as a 16.2 W/b and so I cant see any reason why they couldnt run together unless the $$ are a factor.
     
  12. miniequine

    miniequine Well-known Member

    There has been a lot of good things discussed here about the pro's and cons of keeping stallions in herd situations or otherwise. After reading all the opinions it comes down to a persons own circumstances and personal preferences so lets leave it at that , I have had a mini stallion get through a double fence, obviously not good enough, and get to my other stallion and the pair took of up the hill and had a good fight, I was beside myself watching them and they were too far away for me to intervene, I was quite amazed at the dominant stallion after putting the other stallion on the ground just stalked off with a look of , I have proved my point, and by that time I was there so took the loser back to a strong yard and left him to lick his wounds , which were minimal, i think a kick had landed some where to make him limp a bit, gone the next day. Not that I let them get together again but the dominant one used to go visit the other one and do some loud talking to him through the fence to remind him who was boss. Sorry for rambling on, just thought it may be of interest.
     
  13. arylin

    arylin Well-known Member

    I jhave not read all the posts just wanted to say that Beelo Bi always ran all 3 stallions together in the off season and as far as I am aware none of the boys were ever injured. Certainly Siam has no marks or scars off any sort from living with 2 other boys. I can remember Bob saying they all got on really well and even when first put back in together there was rarely any issues with the boys.
    He did have them in a front paddock tha was fairly secluded from the mares so that may have been helpful.

    Siam currently lives with his girls all year round and Josh hapily lived with his gelding friend Soda. Josh is a rising 3 yr old. I run all my young colts together from weaning and often have geldings in as well with the colts.

    A well socialised stallion is more settled and easy to get along with in my opinion
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2008
  14. deschuur

    deschuur Gold Member

    Again from my observations of Zebras........

    Zebras and horses like company because they are a herd animal, they feel safe and secure in a herd environment, usually the stallion is a standing guard on an anthill a small distance away from the herd, should he sense danger or see it he is quick to be back among his mob and together they will make their escape. A lone animal is a dead animal, law of the savannah. The bachelors don't live alone out there they live in groups. When the time comes to the power shift the out going stallion very rarely will survive the night let alone a week.

    How does this relate to our domesticated horses? I am not really sure but from my observations of my mob this is what I have observed. (and yes I waste far toooo much time watching the horses interact with each other:eek::) )

    Frits does keep watch of his herd, he stands guard on his little hillock in his paddock and under his tree dozing but is quick to perk up if he sees or hears anything. Very much like a zebra stallion actually - only he can't get to his herd. However he does interact with the herd, he calls them and they respond - each call is different too. At the moment he spends a lot of time watching Paris and her foal - yes he even has a call for her to which she responds. I notice that the mob all lie down and snooze in the paddock with out a watcher close to them - I suspect that they feel 'safe' because Frits is watching but from a distance. Either that or my horses will never make it in the wild:p

    Frits also has a 'friend' , who escapes constantly (horse is an escapeartist), and goes to spend time along side Frits paddock and Frits seems to enjoy the close contact of this horse. If I were ever to put a paddock companion in with Frits it would be Mushu but this is not going to happen because Mushu is my daughters horse and there is a big saftey issue there.
     
  15. GeeJay

    GeeJay Guest

    When we got our Stallion he was running with 6 colts of different ages and 1 mare, the fellow who had them had been sick for a long time.

    When Graeme picked them up, none had been handled never halter broken, so he ran them into his stock crate to bring them home.

    Not one of these horses had injurys, the one we have had the right to the mare and that was it, the other's were gelded and broken in and sold on.

    Our fellow runs with his mares and they foal with him and this is our choise doesn't make him any less valuble, infact he is price less because of his nature and his bloodlines Irreplaceable.

    We now have trained him to stand back when we ride in his paddock, this is because up hear they will run on 6,000 acres, so to check them we have to do it on horse back.

    Our 2 young colts run with a gelding never a problem.

    But like I say this is how we have it, it works for us, they are happy well trained horses and we also don't take outside mares which is often the cause of injury.

    So please I don't want to have to defend myself if some find this wrong#(

    Cheers Janet:)
     
  16. retroremedy

    retroremedy Well-known Member

    Most studs I know do not run their stallions together. The stallions are separated or are in with only mares or geldings....and although lots of people have brought up examples, the norm is stallions are separated and I can understand why this is done to reduce risk of injury to each horse....because stallions have an increase risk of fighting. I am sure that some fights might end in cuts and bruises but sometimes it must end in permanent damage and that surely couldnt be good.

    I know of a beautiful QH stallion that lived for years and years with his mini gelding friend, they shared their feed out of the same feed bin, hung out all day together and it was great. One day a new mare arrived on the property and the stallion suddenly turned on the mini, hunted and viciously attacked the mini and nearly killed him....the owners were shocked to pieces. There are many other stories out there, like in the recent media, were stallions that have been in families for 20 years and then out of the blue a couple of seconds instinct overcomes them and it has been a terrible outcome....when this happens everyone stands up and acknowledges that stallions have to be treated with respect.

    I am just someone that likes to follow the norm (because separating stallions is the norm) and not running them together by themselves. I just think you put them at an increased risk of hurting themselves if some altercation does take place and we as humans cannot really predict when that might happen. Very young colts, yes but 3 year + confined together that sounds like asking for potential trouble. There is a thread on open discussions about organised stallion fighting and how abhorrent it is, I just dont think it is best for any unorganised stallion fighting to accidently take place!
     
  17. Delrae

    Delrae Gold Member

    some very interesting food for thought on this thread, my 18 month mini colt lives with a 4 yr old gelding and the gelding is the dominant of the two still.

    slightly off topic, but on the same theme, when I get TJ home and he is fit and well enough, I would like him to become a permanent paddock stallion with his mares, he usually lives beside them, (fingers x'ed the mares are in foal) now he can be quite a domineering stallion so what is the best way to introduce him into this life style, so that he isnt hassling the mares too much at the beginning
     
  18. sil

    sil Gold Member

    I have 2 stallions, both 'horse' size.

    One is kept at agistment here. He has a paddock to himself and in the other paddocks there are mares and geldings. The paddock next to him is kept empty for safety's sake. He was well socialised as a young horse and kept with a mare always since he was 2. I did not feel he would be okay with a gelding or colt for company, but a mare would be fine. One day one of the mini colts got out and next thing I know they are keeping each other company. He does not seem to mind at all except at dinner time when he is more concerned about having to share his tucker, and tends to make faces at the mini colt. I think it is more that he is a mini than a colt that makes him little thread to the stallion.

    The other is the colt coming from America. He cost big $$$ but when I put him on board near his breeder, I did not hestitate when they offered to board him 24/7 with their own colt (both 2 years of age). They had mares on the property but not 'right next to' the colts, so they play together but not too rough. It has only been recently that they have been separated at rising 3yo for work. When he arrives here he will have a mare for company.

    We also had two colt bred with the prior stud I was with. They ran together until about 2 1/2 years of age and loved to play lockerroom games together. Now the stallion was also on the property and they could see each other, there were no problems. The colts shared a line with the broodmare herd and there was no trouble. On the one occasion one colt got out of the paddock, we found him terrified boxed in a corner with the mares ready to eat him alive (so he thought).

    In all cases it's a case of judgement by the breeder as to what is a 'justifiable risk'. I don't believe in eliminating so much risk that you are going to the other end of the scale and the horse is not allowed to be a horse. Yes, stallions are horses too and of all the sexes they are the ones who most desperately crave social behaviour. Touch, contact, mutual grooming, play, 'hanging out' all of it, not just 'look and don't touch'.

    A stallion knows when you genuinely care for their best interests. I have never had one that has tussled for dominance more than a normal horse when in a bachelor herd or broodmare band situation. In fact I would say the opposite - happy contented mentally stallions in a reasonable normal environs with company, clear rules in regards to handlers and an extra job to do are so easy to deal with.

    The stallion I have here I can lead on a loose rope halter down the lane past geldings, colts and mares in and out of season, hitch him up to be groomed and other horses are being walked past or people will stand and chat. He KNOWS those horses are there but he has respect.
     
  19. Delrae

    Delrae Gold Member

    **clap hands** well said sil **)
     
  20. sil

    sil Gold Member

    How many more cases could have been averted by considering and risk managing the stallion's psychological and emotional needs, instead of making him live isolated apart from brief sexual contact a few times a year?

    The argument can go the same way, mental needs can be more powerful than some appreciate.

    IMO a socially frustrated stallion is much more potentially dangerous and likely to take that frustration out on people, than one that has social company.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2008
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