Jumps racing...Another Dead

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by sherridin, Apr 24, 2011.

  1. I am not sure about that.

    I am NOT saying you are wrong, I am NOT saying I disagree with you. I am saying I am not sure.

    Reason being is horses will do incredible things through fear, I've seen some pretty unreal feats from fearful horses, most often they hurt themselves or somebody else. Looking at a couple of videos a few times, it looks to me the horse gets separated from the others and tries to follow them no matter what is in the way. He looks like he's desperate to get back to the safety of the herd.

    Horses have great hearing. He certainly would have heard the crowd on the other side of that fence although he wouldn't have been able to see them - race fans do make a racket during a race! It looks as though the horse ran and jumped blindly to get back with the others. As you watch the vid you can see that the horse is going in the same direction as the runners, and they run more or less in front of him and it looks like he's trying to follow.

    Again I am not saying you're wrong, I am saying this is what it looks like to me from the video and info provided.

    I am saying I, personally, am not sure.
     
  2. Mach

    Mach New Member

    I agree with you Merrylegs,
    that horse would not be jumping that fence into a crowd of spectators because he wanted to. I think its disgusting that people can make a joke of his skill and potential value when he could have killed himself
     
  3. sunline

    sunline Well-known Member

    How can you say it wasnt driven by fear?

    the very act of racing, is taping into the primal fear horses have, the last weakest link will get eaten by the predator, that if the herd starts bolting, You go too.

    if the horses werent running in fear and flight, do you think they'd keep running after their jockey was dislodged?

    so it cleared the 2m fence and obviously is a great bold eventer that loves jumping.. yet fell and couldnt clear one of the jumps in the race?? bit of a contradiction there.
     
  4. Brew

    Brew Well-known Member

    My father was a trainer of jumps horses. We had a full stable of 20 horses and I can't remember a horse ever being lost. In those days some point to point horses would race twice on the same day. perhaps there is an issue with the courses or the training ???
     
  5. Trojane

    Trojane Well-known Member

    I agree with Merrylegs.
    Though was a magnificent jump remember the horse had no rider to carry - doesn't mean it would pull this out everyday.

    There have been claims gallopers are getting finer, thus snap legs more easily.
    I am not into racing but notice many OTTB are very lightly built.
    Some say there are not so many sturdy more warmblood/dressage types available here off-track as were 20 - 30 years ago.
    Maybe in UK they still breed more robust lines for steeplechasing?
    Racehorse people - what do you think?
     
  6. sherridin

    sherridin Well-known Member

    There are some pretty nasty horse falls I've seen and that would be far from the worst. It could have been a lot worse, but I have seen so many I have probably been desensitised in some ways. And, yeah, I do think (from the pictures) that the horse jumped that well and bold. He was better off making the judgement to jump it than crash through it - hence the idea of not running blindly with fear. And I still hope that some nice show jumper picks him.

    Anyway, some TB's are finer some aren't. I wouldn't agree that they are much finer than 30 years ago because from the hundreds to thousands I've seen they don't seem much finer. It depends alot on breeding though.

    There's the shorter, stockier, heavier set ones. There's tall, leggy but strong types. There's plenty of different types around racing. Have a look at the group and blacklisted races and usually they are good strong plenty of bone types. They're probably out there, just not good racehorses?

    The UK breed steeplechasers, point to pointers, hurdlers etc and that is what makes them more successfull with jumps. Although, their fatalities are not so good either. The UK has more jumps racing, more jumps tracks, more experience, better suited conditions (usually) and horses and trainers and the jockeys are still lightweights. It's different over there, their jumps horses don't become jumps horses because their too slow for flat racing (usually) they are bred and trained that way.

    But in saying all that about UK jumps, doesn't mean that some of their races aren't outdated and barbaric either. The death statistics are high too and IMO the Grand National Steeplechase is disgusting and outdated. VERY different from a XC course or eventing. The fatality stats are on deathwatch.com.

    I don't think in my personal opinion, that there is a place for Jumps racing to continue in Australia. There is no way to make it safer for horse and jockey with the resources they have.
     
  7. eventingchild

    eventingchild Well-known Member

    the races are noisy...especially on a big day and that carnival is HUGE for that town. The noise would have been just the same to him if he was galloping by...it is seriously noisy. I think if he was blindly trying to go with the others, he would have been with them and not with infront of the huge wall... but thankyou merry legs, you have been the only one to be nice about this.


    Not joking, this animal of obviously a very talented horse...if it was just a wall with no people behind what would you be saying?

    You don't know racing, simple as that. I work with yearlings all the way through to the oldies..my boss does pre training and training, So I sit on a wide range of different horses and in my time with my boss 10months I have lost count of all the different horses I have worked with.

    When horses run on fear you can't control them, jockeys need to be able to control them, there jobs are dangerous enough!!!

    we have had one horse who runs on fear we actually have him atm, and guess what, we are taking him trail riding to chill him out! Horses are taught to jump from the barriers.

    I tell you what, my horses would love it if they got to work like gallopers do, no stress, just have to gallop a few times a week, no one trying to make them do that dressage crap, no driving to the middle of no where to and camp!

    and every time you have fallen off a horse has it just stood there? I have had to walk home a few times and find my horse back in its paddock or stable -.-

    No, we have 22 horses in work and there all quite different, I am actually amazed at the amount of BIG 2yrs coming through!...we have one 2yr that currently stands at 16.3, he looks like his crossed with a Frisian, big black baby!


    here are some photos of our "fear running horses" -.-

    Field Commotion...he retired a few months ago, such a lovely big boy our ground worker took him home
    [​IMG]

    Magic Carpet Burns...really stressed before her race, which she won :D
    [​IMG]

    Lauradane...one of the states top 3yr Fillies
    [​IMG]

    Socks and Simba, two of the yearlings fresh from the breaker, both out in the paddock growing into lovely boys

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Spider n Toby

    Spider n Toby Gold Member

    Watch out summer those beasts are crazy ;p
     
  9. sunline

    sunline Well-known Member

    Standing in crossties, is hardly the same situation as in a race.

    Watch Martin Clunes doco horsepower.
    "He meets champion jockey Frankie Dettori and top trainer Luca Cumani, for a fascinating insight into horse psychology. He learns how we?ve harnessed their ancient fear instincts.*"

    But hey, who are they to know anything about horse racing..

    Of course the horse dumps you then runs home to be with the herd where it's safer...
    The jumps horse was running on pure instinct to be with the herd.
     
  10. Random_Winger

    Random_Winger Well-known Member

    After recently watching the Horsepower series, as much as I found it contradictory to his own profession, Luca Kimani even said so himself that horses race because of fear.
    I was astounded and greatly believed in what he said. I strongly suggest to anyone, racing industry or not to listen to his words.

    The racing industry is a tough game as it is. It will either make you or break you (as well as the horses). And sadly there are some trainers (certainly not many) that actually just see the horse as an object of money earning and nothing more. They'd care nothing for what happens to them and move on to the next. Same can be said for some owners :(

    It's a whole lot different to those riders and workers who deal with the horses everyday, and the trainers that actively participate in the preparation of their horses, than to those heartless 'investing' owners and trainers that only do it for success. Thankfully, WA has more of the former **)


    **snap** sunline for both making mention of horsepower!
     
  11. sherridin

    sherridin Well-known Member

  12. Leti loves Elmo

    Leti loves Elmo Well-known Member

    Havent driven many pacers who runs on fear..

    I know trainers that do teach it but they are looked down upon and not talked about nicely.

    I have driven a wide range of horses from freshly broken in yearlings to your old claimers. And its not the way most are taught. Our 2 year olds stroll along together in trackwork. Nice and easy and with experience start to learn what its about. There is no fear enforced. But they run anyway off the bit and ears pricked. Clearly no fear there.

    They do not run with the pack for instinct like something is chasing them. They are taught what racing is and how to be competitive. They race each other and they know its a race. Why else do some get excited when jogging slow work next to other horses? Most dont. They dont even touch the bit.

    ETA: Btw that jumps horse i would take as an eventer lol. Have you ever had a horse loose? Even a quiet hack. Sometimes when they realise they are loose they start to run and adreneline builds up making them hard to catch. That is purely what happened with this horse. He didnt know there where people on the other side. He just saw a wall in his path and was bold enough to jump it.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2011
  13. sherridin

    sherridin Well-known Member

    And again.....:mad:

    RIP Ledgers Dream.
    This veteren jumper fell and broke his neck in the 10th hurdle at Morphetteville today.

    Just a day or 2 from the announcement that jumps racing will start again in Bendigo with today having it's first trials. Although the trials went off without a hitch or injury (that has been reported) it will only be a matter of time.
     
  14. cisco kristy

    cisco kristy Well-known Member

    yea I sore the fall, wasen't nice to see:(
     

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